Made In The USA: Liberty Bottleworks

Let’s just get this out of the way: If you like the idea of an American-made aluminum bottle with WWII graphics on it, then you can get it here. It’s built like a P-47 and it will just barely fit in a bicycle waterbottle cage, assuming that said cage is as flexible as the titanium King Cages I use on my bikes.

If you want to read a little bit about morality and empathy and food safety and whatnot, click the jump and let’s go for a ride.

A few weeks ago, I attended the Summer NAMM show in Nashville as a guest of Taylor Guitars. Although I pride myself on my objectivity and standoffishness as an autowriter, when it comes to music stuff I have no such obstacles. The new generation of Taylor “V-Class” acoustic guitars makes pretty much everything else in history obsolete. I own a lot of high-end acoustics, including a Ren Ferguson Gibson “Doves In Flight” and a rosewood Hummingbird that was played by Walter “Magnet and Steel” Egan and a flawless Martin D-41. All of that stuff is for sale now, more or less. I’m putting in my order for the most elaborate V-Class they will sell me — I’m hoping it’s the Milagro Brazilian / Sinker Rosewood PS14ce. I’m currently in possession of a V-Class 614ce Builder’s Edition and at some point I’ll record a demo and/or get a better player to show you what it can do.

Anyway… At NAMM the nice people from WordPress were handing out free “S’WELL” bottles, in this case the champagne 17-ounce, which is a $35 item. I’ve been using it at work; although it’s not as good as my Pelican insulated cup, it’s much smaller for the amount of water or soda that it can hold. I’m fairly impressed with S’WELL so I decided to read up on it. This is Sarah; S’WELL is her company.

Sarah writes,

In 2010, I launched S’well with the mission to rid the world of plastic water bottles. I believed that if we made a crave-worthy bottle that combined fashion with function, people would stop buying disposable bottles, and we could reduce single-use plastic consumption worldwide. It was an audacious goal, but I believed the world needed S’well.
.
Seven years later, we are the fastest growing woman-owned company in the country! I am delighted every time I see a S’well in a purse a backpack or a stroller. Our fan base has been built by word of mouth, one enthusiastic user to another. We are making big differences by the amount of plastic we’re keeping out of landfills and our waterways.
.
I’m also incredibly proud to partner with UNICEF, (RED) and many other important charities. Not only do our bottles work great, they also help accomplish great work.
.
Thank you for supporting our mission and being part of the journey. Together we can do amazing things!

Let me tell you one of the amazing things that we apparently cannot do: make the S’WELL bottle in the United States. It is (very well) made in China. This isn’t unusual for insulated bottles: Pelican, which is about as USA-focused as you can get, has its insulated cups made in China. And of course YETI, that noted hippie purveyor of Chinese junk, sources their stuff from the Middle Kingdom too.

Let’s assume that Sarah is not just the typical vulture founder/CEO who would sell her parents into slavery to bump her share price an eighth. Let’s assume that she really means what she writes — and let’s also assume that her message resonates with her customer base. What does that say about their so-called Monkeysphere, their zones of empathy?

Five years ago, I explained that the world in general has the following ranking of souls:

Sheryl Sandberg -> VIR Oak Tree -> dead people in plane

If you’ve watched the news and examined the controversies lately, you know that our ruling class has their own ranking of souls:

Valerie Jarrett’s dignity -> the right of children to not be ejaculated on by a 40-something film director

Because Roseanne Barr had to get the immediate chop for insulting VJ, while there are thousands of media people passionately defending the right of James Gunn, who directs and works with children, to say stuff like this:

The Washington Post says it’s wrong to fire someone for making thousands of jokes about fucking children. The Post also said that firing Roseanne had an “undeniable moral authority”.

In other words: You can fuck with little kids, but if you fuck with Obama’s mentor, your ass has got to go. Why is Valerie Jarrett’s freedom from parody so much more important than the sexual innocence of children? Probably for the same reason that the media world said THANK CHRIST IT WAS SOME RANDO WHO GOT SMOKED ON THAT ASIANA FLIGHT AND NOT SHERYL SANDBERG. Some souls are smaller than others. Roman Polanski’s soul is bigger than the soul of the child he forcibly sodomized. He makes great movies. His victim never made a great movie. James Gunn might be fucking three kids a night for all we know but none of those kids made the Obama Era possible.

If you are a parent, you would do well to remember this. Children have small souls. The Establishment is not super-interested in protecting them. Any work in that area needs to be done exclusively by you. Thousands of young women were systematically raped in the UK. The authorities knew about it. They let it happen. And the people who tried to stop it lost everything. The protection of your child is YOUR responsibility. You can’t look away. Not for a minute. Children have small souls.

Back to water bottles. The nice lady from S’WELL probably has a chart in her head that looks like this:

Keeping plastic out of oceans -> the welfare of ocean animals -> a whole of other stuff -> American workers

She feels emotionally closer to the Pacific Ocean than she does to the American worker. I’m not kidding here. That’s real as it gets. She could do whatever it takes to make bottles in the USA and give jobs to a whole small town. Instead, she would rather make a little more money and give more of her profits to (mostly overseas-based) charities.

When I go off on a rant about populist bullshit and future revolution and all the other things that make you, the reader, suspect that I’ve lost my mind, these are the things about which I think. Hollywood directors are allowed to fuck kids, because kids don’t matter. Our distant overclass is more worried about a sea turtle somewhere than it is about American workers.

The Liberty Bottle is aluminum, not steel. So it’s not as durable as the S’WELL, and you need to be more careful with it. The liner of the Liberty Bottle can wear out, at which point you probably don’t want to drink from it anymore. You need to wash it by hand, while the S’WELL can probably go through my Asko dishwasher or the Silkwood shower.

One of these bottles saves sea turles.

The other one gives an American worker a chance to protect his own child.

The choice is yours, friendo.

76 Replies to “Made In The USA: Liberty Bottleworks”

      • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

        We’ve covered this before; the site went to affiliate links around the time I put the ads in. It’s always been disclosed at least once per vendor and usually more often.

        The general response of the readers was “sure, no harm done.”

        FWIW, thanks to all that this site now breaks even instead of loses money.

        Reply
    • Doug

      +1000

      I am glad you brought up that Gunn thing. The guy is obviously not kidding in any of those tweets. The fact that the same people who were hysterically outraged about the faux racism tweet and cheering Roseanne’s hiring are now defending a likely pedophile from being subject to the same consequences tells you where society is these days. It seems the leftist motto of “for thee but it does not apply to me” has been officially adopted.

      Reply
  1. Fred Lee

    Not to state the obvious, but this is a misleading sentence:

    “””
    Because Roseanne Barr had to get the immediate chop for insulting VJ, while there are thousands of media people passionately defending the right of James Gunn
    “””

    It could just as accurately be written:

    “””
    Because James Gunn had to get the immediate chop for tasteless humor while there are thousands of people passionately defending the right of Roseanne Barr to compare a black person to an ape.
    “””

    Reply
    • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

      The difference, of course, is that the people who defended Roseanne were almost all powerless normal folks, while the Gunn crowd includes every major media source in America including Fox News.

      Reply
      • everybodyhatesscott

        Roseanne also got axed first. I’d defend Gunn if we were still on a playing field were plenty of other people have already been fired. If it’s fair game for THEM, it should be fair game for him.

        It’s not hypocrisy to note ‘if she has to go for being mildly offensive so does he’

        I’m just a midwest deplorable but I think pedophilia is worse than racism.

        Reply
    • Ronnie Schreiber

      Do you get so upset when Muslim leaders quote Islamic sources calling Jews pigs and apes?

      Does Valerie Jarrett look like Helena Bonham Carter’s charater in Planet of the Apes or does she not?

      Just which ethnic or racial groups can be described with animalistic metaphors and which are immune? Is it cool to say that Nazis were bestial but saying the same about MS13 members is wrong?

      Reply
  2. PaulyG

    Why? Because her upper middle class customer base thinks the same way.

    I live in one of those wealthy Fairfield County towns where I see this virtue signaling all the time.

    Right now the big issue is plastic straws that apparently are filling up the oceans. So they are going to ban them. Already, all the chic restaurants are voluntarily banning them. Now everyone can say, I did my share!

    https://06880danwoog.com/2018/07/12/melisaa-joan-hart-wants-westport-to-stopsucking/

    Never mind that few straws end up in the ocean, or that 95% of all ocean plastic comes from Asia and Africa or that 46% of ocean plastic is discarded fishing nets.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-06-07/plastic-straws-aren-t-the-problem

    But that would take effort to demand better net disposal, along with higher seafood prices. And your 10,000″ TV from China would cost more as waste disposal costs would drive up the price of goods from Asia.

    By the way those factory workers in the flyover states voted for Trump so they don’t count anyway.

    Reply
    • safe as milk

      @PaulyG – yes, there are bigger problems than plastic straws in the world but plastic straws are a real problem. i don’t see any reason that we should continue to use them. there is a bill being considered to ban them in new york city. why not?

      Reply
      • Arbuckle

        “why not?”

        Because I consider the convenience of using a plastic straw to outweigh the potential cited environmental impact.

        Reply
        • Lucas

          I don’t really care if they ban plastic straws or not, but I will say I’ve used a few paper straws and they worked just fine as a replacement for a disposable plastic straw. Like paper cups they won’t work long-term if you’re not planning to dispose of it within 24 hours, but I suspect much like paper cups they go immediately into the garbage after consumption 99.5% of the time.

          Reply
          • silentsod

            What’s the cost to the business of plastic vs paper straws? These measures to feel good by doing much about nothing has a real cost to people and can potentially put them out of business.

      • Fred Lee

        Virtually *EVERYTHING* we do is a “real problem”. Driving? Real problem. Building houses? Real problem. That is not a legitimate argument for banning something that provides value.

        Straws are the cause du jour because someone found a turtle with a straw in its nose. Yes, that’s sad. But that is not a reason to get rid of all straws. For some people straws solve a very real problem. For others, they are convenient and make drinking more pleasant.

        I’d strongly encourage those who do not want to use straws not to use them. But unless you want me to dictate the things that you do, please don’t try to dictate whether or not I use straws.

        Reply
      • Ronnie Schreiber

        A “real problem”? No, a crusade cooked up by a 9th grader who was unhappy that a restaurant served him a drink with a straw. So he cooked up a statistic that has been trumpeted since.

        I ask you, how will you drink a milk shake without a straw?

        Banning plastic straws is also sexist as more women prefer straws than men. Is the rule today that you can’t do anything that might affect women negatively? Think of the children!

        Reply
      • Joel

        If we really want to make a difference it’ll take a LOT more than plastic straws: we would also need to ban all single-use plastic items that aren’t 100% biodegradable.

        This would include plastic cups and even “paper” coffee cups (they have a plastic coating on the inside), styrofoam, plastic grocery bags (what’s wrong with paper??), and any plastic containers for hygiene, cleaning products, meat and produce, etc…

        Reply
    • Fred Lee

      “””
      Right now the big issue is plastic straws that apparently are filling up the oceans.
      “””

      Kill two birds with one stone! (I mean, not literally, cause birds -> plastic in oceans -> …..)

      Stainless steel straws, made in the USA! Save the whales and employ Americans…
      https://www.etsy.com/shop/MulledMind

      Reply
      • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

        Firefly Bicycles, in Boston, makes titanium straws at $20 a pop, anodized to the color of your choice.

        Needless to say, the review is forthcoming.

        Reply
        • Disinterested-Observer

          I don’t wish ill upon the sea turtles, but I think the real problem with straws and the proliferation of plastic bottles is as a hormone disruptor. I do no believe for a second that Bruce Jenner and the many others like him or her or it that are coming out of the woodwork were “born (that) way”. Why would we think that something that affects frogs so profoundly would not affect other species?

          Reply
        • Fred Lee

          Dammit Jack, now I’m going to have to get a titanium straw to go with my TiCycles (made here in Oregon!) frame, King Cage Ti bottle cages, Titanium Eggbeater pedals and, in a fit of absolute idiocy, Chris King titanium crown race and headset cap.

          I keep hoping Bruce Gordon will do another run of his famous Silca clone titanium frame pumps.

          Reply
    • Doug

      @PaulyG
      Your key premise “that would take effort” would require actual thinking about the situation and making a reasoned thought based on some evidence. Logic, thought, and rational thought are not a component of the eco-whackos or the leftists in general.

      Reply
    • Aoletsgo

      Paper straws instead of plastic ones, sure what ever.
      You are right about Africa and Asia. I have spent time in Southeast Asia and the plastic bags, bottles, trash they throw right into the waterways is disgusting. Of course we can’t criticize them that would not be PC.

      Reply
  3. safe as milk

    personally, i prefer my water bottles cheap, easy to keep clean and translucent. nalgene bottles are all of the above AND made in the USA.

    Reply
  4. Adam Tonge

    Are there any stainless steel water bottles currently made in the USA? I think Liberty is the only game in town if you are looking for a metal insulated bottle made in America. It’s too bad that Stanley was purchased by PMI in the early 2000s and moved the manufacturing of everything to China. I still have my father’s old Stanley Thermos that was made in Nashville.

    Reply
    • Vincent

      Liberty bottles aren’t insulated. I heard a couple years ago that they were working on an insulated version, but it looks like that hasn’t materialized yet.

      That said, I do like mine, which is painted to match the B-17 sitting outside the Boeing museum.

      Reply
    • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

      Yeah we are solemnly assured that it’s just too difficult to do here. This country can make an SR-71 but not an insulated bottle.

      Of course, it was a different country when we were making the SR-71.

      Reply
    • nobody

      Despite much looking, I am not aware of any US-made stainless bottles or metal insulated bottles. Liberty Bottles in fact sells some insulated bottles, but the designation subtly changes from “Mare in USA” to “Printed in USA”: not quite the same.

      Really the only steel vacuum containers I am aware of that are made somewhere other than China are the rather expensive thermos-like flasks sold by Snow Peak, whcih are made in Japan.
      While I would of course prefer US-made, if it’s unavailable I would rather buy something made in a country that has meaningful labor and environmental standards and pays living wages. I got one of the Snow Peaks for my wife, and it seems to work well.

      For those looking for bike bottles, Polar Bottle (https://polarbottle.com) offers a full line of US-made insulated plastic sports bottles that look designed to fit standard cages. Years ago I bought a Thermalux stainless vacuum bottle from them, when the website strongly implied that all their products were made in the USA. Unfortunately they have subsequently clarified that their metal bottles come from the good old PRC. The lids and gaskets are still from the US, though I have to say the gasket on my Thermalux has been pretty unreliable.

      Reply
      • nobody

        Mare=made, of course.

        As another slight fix, my statement that the Snow Peaks are the only non-Chinese vacuum bottle is incorrect in that I recalled that Zojirushi vacuum flasks are made in Thailand, fwiw.

        Reply
      • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

        I use Polar Bottles on my bike. They are so much better than the next best choice that I’m not even sure what the next best choice is!

        Reply
        • Fred Lee

          Since you asked, Specialized Purist Insulated is at least the equal of Polar. And Specialized frequently has good clearance sales on their website. A couple years ago I loaded up on bottles at half off.

          Unfortunately I’ve found that on truly hot days there is no water bottle of any brand that will keep a drink cool for more than an hour or so. For that the best option turns out to be an insulated camelbak. For the backpack averse one can jerry-rig some models to fit inside the triangle with the tube fastened to the aerobars. Next trick is to always purge the liquid from the tube after drinking or you’ll wind up with a hot first swig before getting to the cooler liquid from the bag.

          Reply
  5. Harry

    For a moment I thought Swell bottles were dishwasher safe. As someone who ends up hand washing at least 8 insulated bottles a day, none of which I have drank out of because room temperature beverage are fine by me, I would pay large amounts of money for a dishwasher safe insulated container.

    To be clear, it doesn’t actually have to be any different from the current ones, it just has to not say “hand wash only”

    Because the PITA of washing them by hand is lesser than the PITA of defending yourself when the damned thing develops a problem.

    Reply
  6. ScottS

    @safe as milk,

    The “plastic straw problem” became a big and funny topic at my office yesterday during lunch when I asked, “So when did plastic straws become evil?”. I had just read the news story about Santa Barbara banning plastic drinking straws and the ordinance included up to 6 months in jail for violators. To say that I was shocked is an understatement. Being a curious type I wanted to know WHY. Why are straws suddenly tools of the devil? It turns out that nearly all of the cities, states, and businesses including corporations like Starbucks are citing the same “data” on plastic straws which asserts that Americans are using 500,000,000 plastic straws per day. Yes, that 500M per day! WTF, you may ask. Well, I said it out loud. Even a busy guy like me knows that the population of the United States is ~325,000,000 people, so you don’t even need a calculator to figure out that every man, woman, baby, #transwhatever is using over 1.5 plastic straws each day. I’m not making this shit up. Check it out from at this widely trusted source. https://www.nps.gov/articles/straw-free.htm Moreover, the “data” says that 80% or 400,000,000 of those straws end up in the ocean. So now the bullshit flags are all over the field. Hell, I was at the beach on the VA Eastern Shore just last week and I did not see one fucking plastic straw in three days. Not one, and I’ve got photos to prove it. So where does the data come from to motivate governments, fortune 500 corporations, and individuals to go crazy getting rid of plastic drinking straws? It turns out the source of the “data” was a 9-year old kid posting his “telephone survey” results on a blog for a company called Eco-cycle. I am appalled that people have so little curiosity to question such blatant bullshit. The reason Fake News works so well is the lazy and incurious allow it to go unchallenged to the point that the purveyors of this crap are emboldened to see how big a lie they pass off as truth.

    Now Mrs. Sarah Kauss is a classic study in seeing an opportunity and running with it. The attractive Harvard Busines School grad has taken S’well north of $100,000,000 in revenue on the philosophy of “ridding the world of plastic bottles”. Well, that’s noble enough until you consider, as Jack pointed out, that the products are manufactured in China where they don’t know the definition of pollution yet. So, what makes an S’well aluminum bottle so special? Last time I was in REI I found myself looking at a staggering array of similar aluminum beverage containers. What Mrs. Kauss is really selling is virtue plain and simple. If she really cared about putting a dent in the plastic bottle problem she would have gone into the business of selling water filters and convincing people to just filter their tap water and drink it from a glass. But the water filter business isn’t glamorous or virtuous or easy to sell online and imbue the owner with an immediate sense of righteousness. A water filtration system can’t be easily carried around or become the topic of tweets and Facebook posts.

    Learn to think for yourself, and avoid being a gullible fool.

    Reply
    • safe as milk

      @ScottS – i’m well aware that the plastic straws aren’t that big a deal. the real problem with most plastics as @disnterested-observer pointed out is endocrine disruption. styrofoam is particularly horrible stuff. i’m sure i’ll get some hate for this but i would be all for the outlawing of all plastics for take out food packaging. yes, it would raise costs and hurt business but i think that’s a fair trade-off for a cleaner environment.

      Reply
  7. Shrug

    The plastic straw “problem” is certainly pretty fucking stupid. Actually, regular-ass people at all are responsible for only a tiny fraction of pollution. Whether it’s from driving or using plastics, we don’t do a whole lot to effect that much.

    There’s like, and I’m not kidding, less than 100 people and corporations that are responsible for the majority of the pollution in the world. Instead of going after them, people instead make it as though it is the average consumers fault. It’s incredibly stupid and only helps protect those that deal the actual damage.

    Reply
  8. Widgetsltd

    What do you say about the children from Mexico and Central America who crosssd the border illegally, seeking asylum, and then were separated from their parents at the policy direction of the Trump administration? How big are those kids’ souls? Some of those kids’ parents were deported while the kids were sent away to various parts of the USA for holding. Those kids may never see their parents again. That’s not too good for the soul. Your friends in Washington can dish out incredible cruelty, too.

    Reply
    • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

      Exactly!

      The solution is to have effective border control and to follow the international practice of requiring refugees to register in the first country they enter. If we did that then there wouldn’t be any child refugees to separate, unless said refugees were coming from the Mexico or Canada, neither of which have conditions that qualify for refugee status.

      With that said, if I went to jail tomorrow they wouldn’t let me bring my son. They would put him into the care of social services. If you recall the disagreement I had with those Jersey boys at Laguna Seca, the primary reason I didn’t drop the kid and his loudmouth father was because I’m not interested in talking to my kid through a mesh panel. It’s the definition of insanity to think you can just show up at a country and that said country will ensure that you and your child stay together.

      Also, those Jersey guys turned out to be alright dudes.

      Reply
    • Ronnie Schreiber

      The asylum process has been thoroughly corrupted and exploited by open borders activists and those they seek to attract to America.

      What responsibility do those children’s parents have in subjecting their children the the dangers they face?

      Reply
  9. Paul M.

    Yes, buy a made in America water bottle or hoodie. Yet when you simply have an option to buy an F-150 made in America or made in Mexico Silverado, go for Made in Mexico.

    Your words are shallow and hollow and EMPTY of meaning.

    Reply
    • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

      You sound just like DeadWeight, and you’re as wrong as he is.

      My enthusiasm for, and recommendation of, American-made products has nothing of the jihad or the jeremiad about it. Every year, I spend tens of thousands of dollars buying things that are American-made, from my refrigerator to the components of my stereo system to the shoes on my feet. I own categories of American-made items that are so vanishingly rare as to be thought extinct; do you know where to find an American-made phono-stage preamp? An American-made fountain pen? American-made collar stays? But this is not a religion and there is no supernatural bald eagle flying overhead that will strike me down if I buy something from another country.

      This is the kind of fuzzy thinking that makes progress impossible. HURR DURR THIS GUY OWNS SIX FIGURES’ WORTH OF AMERICAN CLOTHES AND GOODS BUT HE DRIVES A MEXICO MOTORS SILVERADO LOLLLERCOASTERS. It implies that there are only two choices:

      0. Make sure that every single thing you buy is made here, regardless of preference or capability;
      1. Just give up and buy all your shit from China.

      The people who say that are the people who want to feel good about doing the second of those choices. But if you need to, you can look at it like this: I have two Honda Accords, made down the street from my house. Their combined price exceeded the Silverado. I pull one of them on an American-made aluminum trailer and that one is chock full of expensive American-made items. It has eight US-made Fikse wheels that cost $1700 a piece. Add it all up and it’s like I bought two new F-150 Lariats. So you can just pretend that I own $100k of American rolling stock in exclusion of a Silverado that does not even exist — and at that point I’m still doing more for American assembly than 99.9% of the people on this planet.

      Thanks for commenting.

      Reply
        • safe as milk

          @lucas – “Never let perfect be the enemy of good.”

          which is exactly why i think it makes sense to ban plastic straws. yes, it’s not much but it’s something.

          Reply
          • -Nate

            RE: banning plastic drinking straws ~

            I’m old and clueless so I don’t see why going back to waxed paper straws like we had when I was young is such a big deal or bad thing……

            -Nate

      • Paul M.

        It is easy to pick on your choice of a very expensive product, and therefore many people do. So you can make it sound like I am someone else, but I am not. It is just easy to see the hypocrisy in your words.

        I still don’t understand why the best selling full size truck made in America is not good enough for the defender of all things American. It sounds suspect. It sounds like if it fits your criteria, you make an effort to buy American, otherwise, not so much.

        You can keep harping about made in America fountain pens, hoodies, or jeans, but I guarantee not many people notice that.

        As for me, I buy American cars, American appliances, and in other categories where American substitutes are not easily found, I support our allies (Japan, South Korea, Europe), or Mexico if only to support people to live there and not to run over here.

        You simply seem superficial when you talk about hoodies and jeans and small potato items, and won’t purchase the best (superior material) truck on the market. That’s all.

        Reply
        • Lucas

          Are you a Ford shareholder or something? Is there a “Calvin pissing on a bowtie” sticker on your F-150?

          Reply
          • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

            I can see where he is coming from — why promote American-made items and then drive stuff like a Silverado and a ZX-14R?

            But again that’s the bizarre notion that only your opponent needs to be ideologically perfect. I could show how I spend more than a Silverado’s worth of money every five years on USA stuff — if you break down the Silverado’s content by USA and other, I probably cover the Mexican/overseas stuff every year — but this fellow is of the opinion that you either have to do ALL THE AMERICAN STUFF or NONE OF THE AMERICAN STUFF.

            Which is just an excuse to do none of the American stuff.

        • safe as milk

          @Paul M. – what american applicances are you buying? i recently had to replace my stove and i couldn’t find anything under $2k that was built here. ge appliances is now a division of haier!

          Reply
          • Paul M

            I roll with Kitchenaid. Probably underneath it is same as a whirlpool. But they look a little more fancy.

            I won’t touch a Koren Samsung or LG. On the other hand, love the Samsung TV 🙂

        • Compaq Deskpro

          You can’t get a 6.2 in an F-150. Not everyone likes turbos and Mustang engines in their truck. Also, Ford historically had a hard time getting paint to stick to aluminum, Crown Vics, various Mustangs, Expedition tailgates, the trucks are too new to exhibit a problem yet but I’d be wary.

          Reply
          • Paul M.

            Sure the 6.2 liter engine is good, until you remember it is also attached to iron body that is heavier and RUSTS. Meanwhile, the F-150 body lasts for eternity. Take that into consideration and realize what Ford did is miles and years ahead of any body else with F-150 when it comes to trucks. The Coyote engine is an advanced proven design and this year makes more power and torque than before with the new 10 speed automatic. Meanwhile, with GM, you have to dig and dig and then dig some more before you even find a 6.2 liter on a Silverado. Even then I think it is not available with the 10 speed until next generation or this year with the RST trim. They make it very hard to find those and only on their top tiers. The Coyote can be had for 35k on a XLT. But I get it, you are paper shopping and don’t live in real world. In real world, F-150 outsells Silverado, because IT IS THE REAL WORLD.

          • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

            0. The F-150 weighs as much as a Silverado, despite the aluminum body, according to the last C/D crewcab test.

            1. Aluminum does not last forever. It corrodes and it galls and it is sensitive to everything from the composition of the washers that fasten it to the amount of electric current on a ground circuit.

            2. If it was that hard to find a 6.2 I wouldn’t have one, and I do.

            3. It doesn’t need the 10-speed, it gets 22mpg on the roll without it and turns a 14.0 quarter mile without it.

            4. A Coyote XLT at $35k is a great truck and a great value and I specifically wrote about that on TTAC. But a Coyote XLT can’t compete with an LTZ 6.2.

            5. F-150 outsells Silverado largely because of dealership coverage. That’s what we believed when I worked at Ford Credit in 1992 and that’s what Ford people believe now.

      • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

        If the Boss 6.2 had been available in an F-150 crewcab, we wouldn’t be having this discussion…

        Reply
  10. Hogie roll

    Importing junk from China is ipso facto supporting slavery. Jeff Bezos is largest slave master in all of history.

    Reply
  11. Rob De Witt

    Go JACK!

    God, these threads just keep getting better. Puh-Lease find more opportunities to shred virtue-signalers and American Eurotrash who are just too conscious to care about the absoluteness of child abuse being evil. Rave on, brother.

    Btw, in re guitars: I’ve never cared for electric guitars, but my acoustic flatttop and archtop are a ’67 D18 and a ’36 Epiphone De Luxe. God Bless America.

    Reply
  12. Widgetsltd

    On the buy American tip: I sure do hope that the threatened 25% tariff on imported cars & parts doesn’t come to pass. As Jack knows, I work for the US distribution arm of a Japanese automaker. Approximately 50% of the vehicles we sell are assembled in the USA. If you look at the window stickers on those vehicles, the listed US-made parts content varies from 45-50% depending on model. The remaining half of sales are of cars built in Japan. So, do the jobs in the US production facility matter? How about the jobs at the US suppliers? If the tariff happens, and if it hobbles my employer, and if that situation results in the elimination of my job, I can’t imagine that I would be cheered by the notion that the tariff might have led to the creation of a manufacturing job at some time, somewhere in the US. Even if I somehow landed that (much lower wage) manufacturing job.

    Reply
    • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

      The quick-and-dirty answer is that the chicken tax created the bulk of American transplant factories, so in theory this SUPERCHICKEN tax would create even MORE factories.

      It certainly works that way in China, doesn’t it? China makes everybody build locally and give up half of their company to the Chinese government, and yet the jobs still happen.

      There’s this constant yelping that any kind of inbound tariff will cripple American industry and destroy jobs. Then you look at China, which has tariffs and barriers beyond our wildest dreams and the multinationals eagerly comply with each and every whim.

      Reply
  13. Widgetsltd

    The chicken tax also created a bunch of bare-minimum compliance behavior. For example, the Mercedes Sprinter van is imported as a complete vehicle if it is a passenger van with seats. If the Sprinter is a commercial vehicle, though, it goes through a multi-step process to circumvent the chicken tax. The Sprinter is fully assembled in a factory in Germany. Next, it is trucked to a facility in Germany where it is partially disassembled. The body shell and drivetrain are shipped to the US on different boats, then the kit is reassembled at a facility in South Carolina. Ford cuts the process down even further with the Transit Connect: The vehicle is built as a passenger vehicle including rear seats and rear windows, it is imported in that condition, then the seats are removed and the rear glass is swapped for metal panels in a facility somewhere in the US. Both of these strategies create a few jobs in the US, but certainly not on the level of the thousands of jobs that would be associated with a full-fledged assembly plant. It’s easy to hold such a sunny, positive view of the proposed tariff when your employer’s success – and a job that you love – doesn’t hang in the balance.

    Reply
    • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

      Yeah, I know about the Transit Connect story… and I’m not indifferent to your plight. I work a day job in a business that pays half of what it paid 20 years ago because of “free trade” and 1.1 million foreign workers entering this country to work indentured servitude. Every nightmare you could possibly have about your gig has already happened to me in real life. My entire team got walked out at Honda in 2012 because IBM Global Services sold them on doing support for American production lines out of Hyderabad. Six months later, after they’d lost tens of millions of dollars in plant stoppages, they called me and asked me to come back. At the Indian wage. Believe me, I know about the impact of corporate whim on human beings.

      Reply
      • Ryan Kling

        Today’s corollary is data science, where a bunch of new grads/Indian/eastern European workers learn off-the-shelf techniques in R and Python and don’t know how to deal with bad data or non-standard situations. It’s a gold rush now (e.g. Booz hiring 100 data science workers in Boston), but the tools are reductive so eventually the “skillz” will become commodities. The people that truly understand what is going are getting rarer, so when something breaks no one will know how to fix it. But the poobahs (i.e. management types) don’t understand or care about technical skill or ability, which is what you both are talking about.

        Reply
  14. hank chinaski

    You most certainly haven’t lost your mind.

    A cursory search shows GOTG 1/2 grossing ~1.5B worldwide, so that’s the simplest answer. It could also be that other thing, if that’s your bag.

    The weaponized autists at /pol have dug into content from Dan Harmon (Rick and Morty), Sarah Silverman, and ‘Dwight’ from ‘the Office’ (to start) and found similar ‘humor’. Since everything remotely ethic or racial is off limits now, it looks like pedo is the go-to for edgy. Does anyone remember ‘dead baby’ and ‘Helen Keller’ jokes?

    And oh yeah, Asko stuff kicks ass.

    Reply
  15. Daniel J

    I tend to agree with you on most things but I things but not on this. Without knowing what the costs are, it’s quite possible that the price would be too prohibited to do it here. Maybe that research was done internally?

    That and they are two different products. Best I can tell Liberty’s bottle isn’t vacuum insulated and it’s made of aluminum. Aluminum can react with certain liquids.

    The competition is tight for these products. Rtic, yeti, takeya/thermoflask, hydrofask and many others. Some of the stories are similar: get rid of plastic.

    The point I’m making is that there is always the third choice of simply doing nothing and not making a product, simply because American made is too expensive for the current competition or American made means higher price and less bottles sold which fails the original requirement. Simply put, these two companies sell similar but different products for different reasons and goals.

    Why fault the original requirement just to throw in a second requirement? I don’t think the original requirement somehow is deminished because a different requirement wasn’t met.

    Fundamentally, we all have different values and priorities. It’s not just about sea turtles either. It’s about landfill space and petroleum use as well. I think it’s important we reduce our footprint. Are American jobs more important? That’s a tough call because many environmental efforts are about conditions that might exist generations down the road. I’d like for my future generation to have clean air, oceans, and wildlife.

    Reply
    • Daniel J

      And somehow my post got cut off…

      Ironically, the very notion of reduced platic bottles is Anti American made…as that affects someone’s job at come or Pepsi who watches the bottles getting filled and packaged. So should we stop buying insulated bottles to save an American worker? It’s just not as cut and dry IMHO.

      Reply
    • silentsod

      If we want clean air, oceans, and wildlife then the focus should be on producing things cleanly and with minimal waste and environmental impact which the good ol’ US of A (thanks to the EPA decades ago) is better at than China, India, and developing countries.

      Outsourcing our pollution only works for a short while.

      Reply
  16. Widgetsltd

    I was so busy telling my story this morning that I neglected to dispute Jack’s assertion that the Chicken Tax created the bulk of transplant auto factories in America. This is incorrect. The main force that pushed for the creation of Japanese automaker transplant factories was the voluntary import quotas agreed to by Japan. These voluntary quotas were quite restrictive, and they were in force from 1981 through at least 1988. I could go on, but instead it would be better to refer to this paper from the Brookings Institution circa 1987. https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/1987/01/1987a_bpea_crandall.pdf

    The Chicken tax had (and still has) a much bigger effect on trucks, particularly those imported from countries other than Japan, since the Chicken Tax did not apply to passenger vehicles.

    Reply
  17. Widgetsltd

    Forgot to mention – The last page of the Brookings paper really drives the point home. It even includes the launch dates for many of the transplant factories.

    Reply
    • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

      Agree with you of course — the VRA was bigger than the tariffs. I think that’s why I wrote “truck plants”. But the VRA itself amounts to an anti-competitive measure, doesn’t it? Why didn’t that just cause the Japanese automakers to take their balls home?

      Reply

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