Just Enough Rope To Hang Them

The most important lawsuit in the country right now has nothing to do with Horseface Stormy; it’s the one exposing Harvard’s secrets for choosing its next freshman class. Brought forward on the behalf of Asian-American students by a white activist-attorney, it’s exposed some odd media biases. Turns out that racial discrimination is good, even necessary, for society — if it’s discrimination against students with Chinese ancestry. And those Chinese-American kids are really better off taking their perfect high school records and top-rank entrance-exam scores to community colleges, anyway. Who would have thought?

It’s also been insinuated that the attorney behind the lawsuit, Edward Blum, is a racist scumbag who hates black people and who is using Asians as a patsy for his own anti-black feelings. All of that’s just a smokescreen. This lawsuit, the practices it exposes, and the entire affirmative-action movement in higher education, has very little to do with people of color, except as window dressing. Instead, it’s Goodwhite vs. Badwhite, and the stakes for the future are higher than you could possibly imagine.

The easiest way to understand it is this: You can read Harvard’s statistics, and if you’re willing to do some math you can figure out that “White” students account for about forty-seven percent of admissions. That doesn’t seem too far out of line. (The media is reporting forty-seven percent as “fifty-ish”, for what it’s worth.)

Except. One-third of Harvard students are “legacies”, and those legacies are almost all white. Subtract the legacies, and you’re looking at a freshman class that is just fourteen percent non-legacy white. We will call that “NPW” for “non-privileged white”. Last year, about 54% of high school graduates in the country were NPW, compared to about 14% who were black.

In other words, while total white admission rates to Harvard are only slightly racist, by about fifteen percent, the admission rate of Goodwhites (Harvard legacy students) is stratospheric while the admission rate of Badwhites (from non-Harvard families) is right up there with the survival rate of Me163 “Komet” pilots in 1945. The game is rigged against the majority of non-privileged white students, and horribly so. Why?

The easy answer is that Harvard wants to balance its social credit books without affecting its legacy-admissions systems. While there’s certainly plenty of truth to that, the real answer, and one that applies in many places besides this particular school, is less pleasant: our #Blessed one-percenters are intent on pulling up the rope ladder after them. Having made it to the top by displacing the people who were there before them, they’re not interested in offering the same chance to others. They fully understand that racial quotas tend to reduce both the statistical achievement of an inbound class and reduce the graduation rate. That’s not a bug — it’s a feature. Sure, Bill Gates did okay after he dropped out of school, but on the average, having a kid drop of out Harvard, or excluding him in the first place, virtually ensures that you, or your child, won’t have to face him on equal terms in the workplace.

It becomes nothing more than a numbers game. The fewer Ivy League graduates there are, the better the prospects are for the current elite, so the one-percenters support policies that reduce the number of graduates. (This, incidentally, is also why the bar exam in many states keeps getting tougher.) Now here’s where we get to the next level. The same goal can be accomplished by diverting people into useless majors (philosophy, gender studies, the majority of “interdisciplinary” topics, all the race-related stuff) because the degrees do not lead to financial success. A Harvard where thirty percent of the class majors in basket-weaving is just as useful to the current elite as a Harvard where thirty percent of the class gives up and goes home. The net result is the same: lower threat levels for the #Blessed and their progeny.

“Wait a minute, you Nazi-ish Nazi,” I can hear you screaming. “Affirmative action doesn’t put lower-quality students into schools — it levels the opportunities for equally-talented students of all races who might not have benefited from privilege in their high school years.” Well, you are invited to read this Brookings study for some depressing truths, and here are the worst ones:

The same absolute disparity persists among the highest scorers: 16,000 whites and 29,570 Asians scored above a 750 (on the math SAT), compared to only at most 1,000 blacks and 2,400 Latinos.
Racial gaps in college enrollment have actually been closing in recent years. In fact, the college enrollment gap by income is now significantly larger than by race. The challenge now is about college graduation rates (where race gaps have not closed) as much as college enrollment.
When such large gaps have opened up by the end of the high school years, equalizing outcomes at the college level will be an almost impossible task. Interventions at the end of the K-12 years, or in the early stages of college, can often be too little, too late.

In other words, people with poor SAT scores go on to do poorly in college, regardless of race, because it’s too late to “correct” the theoretically deadly effects of racism/privilege/whatever by then. From the perspective of the elite, this, too, is a feature and not a bug. By engaging in affirmative action at the college level, when it’s effectively too late, American universities guarantee that today’s graduating classes are less likely to threaten their predecessors.

But wait, there’s more. It’s possible to protect the one-percent kids even more — by applying the same kinds of requirements to major employers, particularly in the finance sector. There’s always going to be room for Muffy Finkelstein at Goldman Sachs, but what about Cole MacDonald from West Virginia, the first person in his family to graduate from Wharton, or John Wu, the supremely accomplished second-generation Chinese-American from California? Better to shuffle those off in favor of a diversity hire. You don’t want Muffy having to compete with Cole on the trading floor. She’ll have more chances against someone whose SAT score was a full standard deviation below hers, or someone whose degree in Gender Studies ensured that he or she never learned any kind of rigorous critical or logical thinking.

The same process is happening everywhere you look — in honors societies, in professional associations, in many sports. Once the scales fall from your eyes, it’s easy to see people pulling the ladder up behind them everywhere you go. The fundamental tactics are always the same:

* reduce the merit required of incoming students/employees/pilots/bankers/whatever;
* ensure that non-privileged-white and Asian kids are disproportionately weeded out;
* ensure a clean path for legacy admissions or hiring.

Almost everybody loses. Badwhites and Asians are penalized for their achievement. Affirmative-action candidates are set up to fail — and even if they succeed, there is a stigma attached to that success that harms their lifetime career prospects. Only the legacies succeed. Worst of all, they get to add insult to injury by virtue-signaling about their devotion to progressive admissions and employment policies that directly benefit them.

It will bite them in the end, of course. The higher they set the bar for Asian and Badwhite students, the sharper those kids will be when they get to the trading floor or the cockpit or the hospital rotation. The Goodwhites are simply putting their enemies through The Dosadi Experiment. If you’ve read the book, you know what happens to the “one percenters” at the end. If not, well… It ain’t pretty. The elite think they are pulling up the rope behind them — but they’re leaving just enough for our children to hang them with.

58 Replies to “Just Enough Rope To Hang Them”

  1. AvatarNYCFinanceGuy

    As an Ivy League graduate (Columbia) who comes from the group you describe as the Badwhites, I have a few thoughts on this subject:

    1) a good portion of students at Columbia were highly accomplished with incredible grades and SAT scores, but no social skills. I think admissions officers are trying to limit the number of these students. I also think there is some overlap between these students and Asian Americans, who have often worked very hard in high school to get ahead but didn’t develop socially during that time. I think that these unsocial students often end up being mid-level employees but are rare in tops of most fields. The further I get out of school and the more I rise in my career I’m finding Asians to be less and less overrepresented despite stellar educations.

    2) Two of the most successful Columbia graduates in recent years have been African American – Barack Obama and Eric Holder. While I don’t always agree with their politics, I commend an admission decision that can pick a future president and attorney general and help them get on track for great careers. Even if Obama’s and Holder’s SAT scores weren’t as high as white students back in the day (and I have no idea whether or not they were), admitting them was the right decision.

    3) The other elephant in the room is Jewish Americans, who I would guess make up almost half of white students in the Ivy League. Besides Asians and Jews, just about every ethnic group is underrepresented in the Ivy League. (Actually there are a couple more over-represented groups – recent African and Caribbean immigrants and their descendants – who make up virtually all black students in the Ivy League.) Jews are often very sociable – and they made up most of my friends at Columbia. Many of them are enjoying stellar careers.

    4) The descendants of lower class whites who have been in America for many generations, like myself, make up virtually zero students in the Ivy League. I worked my ass off in high school and made it in despite having little encouragement or knowledge about how to navigate the system. Despite almost no representation, there is no affirmative action for us. In fact it’s the opposite – many consider us to be WASPs (and technically I am white Anglo-Saxon and descended from Protestants) despite none of the privileges that the term implies.

    I’m not sure what point I’m trying to make. I guess I’m trying to say that the Ivy admissions should be way more focused on the soft skills. SAT scores don’t matter to anyone in the real world, but leadership skills do. Affirmative Action is fine to some extent, especially when it results in future leaders even if they don’t have perfect SAT scores.

    Lower class whites certainly have not suffered nearly as badly as African Americans or Native Americans in our nation’s history. But our ancestry as sharecroppers and English serfs (if you go back far enough) has lead us to underachievement much like these other groups. Affirmative Action, if it continues to exist, should be more granular – looking at ethnic subgroups. Racial groups as they are currently categorized are too blunt of a measure.

    • Thomas KreutzerThomas Kreutzer

      I want to say that this a great, thoughtful post. I wish I has been able to see it before I wrote my own post below. I think you hit the nail right on the head when talk about social development. Your thoughts mirror what I have increasingly thought as I too have competed with my higher-class colleagues for advancement over the years.

      In my post below, I say that, “the people we are competing with have started out with an advantage that is almost impossible to overcome” and I think a lot of that has to do with an innate sort of social fluency that I fail to share. It would be easy to me to simply say they are all brown nosers and glad handers, but it’s not true. We all work hard, but somehow they make it look easier.

      They graciously accept the accolades and credit for their achievement while I feel embarrassed about it. They sing their own praises without people thinking they are douchebags while I have an internal struggle over any attempts I might make to get recognition. They have, I think, a way of communicating in social situations that seems foreign to me. They seem purpose built to cut through the social environment for it in the same way that sharks are built to cut through the water. They cruise through without breaking a sweat while I chug like a locomotive. Again, it’s difficult for me to explain because I can’t quite wrap my head around it.

      So yeah, I 100 percent agree, You can bring me down out of the woods, dress me up in a suit and tie and give me an office to sit in, but you can’t make me feel like I really belong here. As a result, my ambitions have and probably always will be stunted.

    • Avatareverybodyhatesscott

      a good portion of students at Columbia were highly accomplished with incredible grades and SAT scores, but no social skills. I think admissions officers are trying to limit the number of these students. I also think there is some overlap between these students and Asian Americans, who have often worked very hard in high school to get ahead but didn’t develop socially during that time.

      You’d think an elite school would be able to teach extremely smart people social skills.

      The other elephant in the room is Jewish Americans, who I would guess make up almost half of white students in the Ivy League.

      I’m sure having Jewish admissions officers doesn’t hurt them

      I guess I’m trying to say that the Ivy admissions should be way more focused on the soft skills. SAT scores don’t matter to anyone in the real world, but leadership skills do.

      Past a certain point for most professions probably, but as someone who has tutored plenty of people who ‘just don’t get’ basic stuff, they matter. They especially matter for extremely difficult professions like doctor.

      And personally, if you’re going to give me the choice between and Asian doctor and Black doctor and I know nothing else, I know which one I’m going to pick. That’s not fair to people who actually deserve it but I’m not risking my life on it. Merit should be color blind. Disparate impact is mostly bullshit.

      • AvatarRonnie Schreiber

        I’m sure having Jewish admissions officers doesn’t hurt them

        Perhaps, but being smart and having good grades and scores probably matters a lot more.

        My neices and nephews have attended Ivy League schools (and I’m not particularly impressed by the Ivies as I went to Michigan, as did their mom and late father, but the Ivies are still pretty good schools after you get past the political indoctrination). I think three of them went to Columbia. My nephew Sam was in a joint program with Columbia and Yeshiva University, where he received his rabbinic ordination. He then went to Harvard Law School and his first job is for silly money at a big Manhattan firm. His younger brother, who met his own recent bride at a sci-fi con, just got into med school, I believe at Columbia since they’ll living in NYC.

        They’re all exceptionally bright. Sam and Lenny could have gotten into any undergraduate college in the United States with their high school grades and scores. Likewise with getting into professional schools. Their sister holds her own with them intellectually.

        One thing I’ve noticed about them, though, is that when you are in the environment of America’s elite institutions, it is very hard not to be infected with the PC brain virus. In real life they are the farthest things from NPCs that you could imagine, but if you vear into politics, it becomes all cant. My neice told me that I didn’t have standing to discuss deconstructionism because I’m not an academic.

        • Avatareverybodyhatesscott

          Perhaps, but being smart and having good grades and scores probably matters a lot more.

          It’s both. The Chinese rival your group in average IQ, work ethic, and severely outnumber you. If Harvard changes to a pure meritocracy, it isn’t going to be 25% Jewish anymore. At what point does “we’re just so much smarter than you” become ridiculous?

          One thing I’ve noticed about them, though, is that when you are in the environment of America’s elite institutions, it is very hard not to be infected with the PC brain virus. In real life they are the farthest things from NPCs that you could imagine, but if you vear into politics, it becomes all cant.

          Agreed and this would all go away if we stopped taking the Ivies so seriously. Plenty of very smart state school grads. And the amount of people who I’ve thought “really, you went to Harvard?” makes me think the education isn’t that great.

          • AvatarRonnie Schreiber

            The Chinese rival your group in average IQ, work ethic, and severely outnumber you.

            As they always have. Jews have always had a relatively small population.

            If Harvard changes to a pure meritocracy, it isn’t going to be 25% Jewish anymore.

            The Jewish people survived before the Ivy League became more meritocratic. They’ll survive regardless of the Ivies’ policies.

            At what point does “we’re just so much smarter than you” become ridiculous?

            Considering that I pointed out that north Asians are at least as smart as Ashkenazi Jews on average, it’s hard to say I’m arguing that Jews have some kind of intellectual superiority.

      • Avatarrnc

        “And personally, if you’re going to give me the choice between and Asian doctor and Black doctor and I know nothing else, I know which one I’m going to pick.”

        The crazy part would be, once you add color back in, is understanding which ethnic group would look at you as a $ sign and which group would look at you as a patient and how that would impact your treatment, I would take the other half of that arrangement.

    • Avatarmrwiizrd

      “I guess I’m trying to say that the Ivy admissions should be way more focused on the soft skills.”

      No, they shouldn’t. Despite your anecdotal experience, the scientific data is absolutely clear on this. The single greatest predictor of successful life outcomes is IQ, not some nebulous concept like soft skills or leadership.

      “SAT scores don’t matter to anyone in the real world, but leadership skills do.”

      The best way to measure IQ for college admissions is standardized testing. Of course there will be exceptions, but exceptions do not disprove the rule. Despite our deeply held beliefs that educations at elite schools matter, they don’t. The admissions process of cherry picking the best and brightest is all that matters.


      “For example, although graduates of selective schools are smarter than the average bear, and more successful, Plomin’s work indicates that this is entirely due to the selection process, rather than superior education at those schools. There’s no special value added. Cal Tech graduates are super-smart because Cal Tech only admits very smart students in the first place.

      The children of successful professionals get higher-than-average scores, but that’s because they share genes linked to greater achievement, rather than gaining from their home environment. Parent-offspring similarity in occupational status and income is chiefly due to genetic factors and almost nothing to do with upbringing. There are (on average) genetic differences between people in different professions, and between different social classes. I’m sure that absolutely everyone will be happy to hear that.”

    • AvatarRichard

      This is a thoughtful article.
      I disagree on one point, however. The bar exam passage rates are not declining because the bar exams are getting tougher. They are declining because the quality of students entering law schools is not what it was.

      Law school is very expensive now.My public law school charged about 200 dollars a semester tuition a generation ago, for a decent legal education. Now the tuition there is 30 grand a year. It is impossible to work one’s way through, as so many of us did.

      The result is that you graduate with a boatload of debt into an overcrowded profession that has an uncertain future. A lot of the brighter kids see this going in, and pick different career paths.

  2. AvatarJustPassinThru

    This is how societies commit suicide.

    Institutions such as Harvard are there not JUST to impart knowledge – they’re cultivating the next generation of elite leaders. Yes, we have a meritocracy, or we once did. But while our class barriers are permeable, they still exist. Classless societies, like income inequality, wind up with virtually all persons, poor serfs and chattel.

    That’s where we’re going here. We are putting persons of purile intelligence into universities, based on SKIN COLOR. Or antiwhite racism, or self-loathing by disturbed officials – it seems the place most middle-class whites with deep-seated mental issues wind up, is the educational infrastructure.

    And it’s not even, purely, hatred of whites. Asians, as your link shows, feel the greatest brunt. But they are locked out – because this isn’t anti-white so much as it’s anti-intelligence and/or, variously, pro-black other favored groups who do not statistically perform or test as well.

    What happens to a society where performance is punished, and those who have no intellectual prowess are cranked through…what used to be a university; but becomes a four-year summer camp and diploma mill? The new credentialed elites…are no better for their diplomas than they were. They still do not read. They still have little perspective. They still test lower than those who were denied higher education.

    Here is what happens: We become Idiocracy.

    It’s happening now, as you see the college graduates of ten years ago, in media; in corporate leadership, in government. Behaving, talking and writing like fools.

  3. Avatarstingray65

    Non-privileged whites and Asian applicants to Harvard need to follow the Liz Warren playbook – all you need is “family lore” about Native American or black or Hispanic bloodlines or a DNA test showing 1/1064% percent non-European or non-Asian blood, and you can claim protected minority status and move into the affirmative action line. Do well in school, and they might even hire you to teach in the Law School to boost the faculty of color representation.

    • AvatarShortest Circuit

      Problem there is you will be disadvantaging someone who is genuinely of native descent. What is exactly why she is currently slammed by every tribesman who the news can get to comment on this mess…

      • AvatarJustPassinThru

        Should your parentage be the basis for special treatment or opportunity?

        Our society worked when it was a meritocracy – imperfectly so, but as close as any society has ever come. Now, with all kinds of set-asides, we have all kinds of stereotypes and all kinds of pejoratives for someone obviously of a certain approved “group” – and all kinds of suspicions about that person’s worth.

        In the 1960s, if you saw a black man with a medical degree and a practice, you had reasonable confidence that he was a qualified physician. But then…remember the Bakke case? Alan Bakke, a top performer, was retroactively denied admission to med school, in favor of one more AA candidate.

        Who later was responsible for numerous deaths from his sloppy liposuction practice. He’s now dead himself – probably out of his own medicine bag. I’m not feeling the need to look up the details.

        It’s the same everywhere – military officers, corporate middle management. Beatrice Foods. Big deal was a black CEO. He, and Beatrice Foods, are both gone.

        Jack Welch, he was not.

        This is the kind of incompetence and destruction, yes, and even sometimes death, when we place tokenism, Identity Politics, and, let’s face it, Euro-American self-loathing, ahead of merit and competence and EQUAL opportunity for ALL.

      • Avatardelow24

        Well there is where your assumption of the intent is totally wrong. The leftist/NPC crowd’s motto is “to seem rather than to be”. As long as you feel like you are a minority then you are 100% that minority.

  4. Thomas KreutzerThomas Kreutzer

    That hanging thread that you say will end up hanging the one percent in the end is really a safety valve that they used to keep the whole boiling pot from exploding. For the most part, those few members of the underclass who manage to escape won’t represent the people below. They will, instead, call the people they left behind lazy and stupid and point to themselves as examples of how the common man can pull himself up by his bootstraps. Rather than being our greatest allies, they will become our worst enemies.

    And here’s the real secret for those of us who have made the climb but refuse to relinquish our old loyalties. We are sidelined even after we fight our way into the hallowed halls or onto the trading floors. We have the skill and the desire, but the people we are competing with have started out with an advantage that is almost impossible to overcome. I don’t know, maybe I’d have had a different experience if I had been younger when I forced my way in, but once I go there I didn’t find a lot of mentors and helping hands waiting to pull me the rest of the way up. Same as always, I had to fight. And I fought for a long time and got pretty far but as the end of my career comes up on the distant horizon I have realized that I will never get as far as I might have hoped.

    Frankly, that pisses me off – which both shows where I come from and explains why I won’t get much farther. It’ a vicious cycle.

  5. AvatarJohn C.

    I think the ivy league is absolutely right to try to control the percentages of Asians in the schools. It is a mistake to let a school become just one ethnicity. Remember they are letting in vast numbers of not just Asian Americans but also student visa people from Asia. While I have no doubt they have the near perfect SAT scores, what is America getting for turning over our best institutions to them? America built the institution for our purposes, not theirs. It is up to the Asians themselves to educate their own best and brightest. That the best university in Asia was founded by the British in Hong Kong is not surprising but is a failure of Asians themselves and it is not our duty to right it for their convenience.. As with so much else, it is not like our generosity is in any way reciprocated.

    • Avatarjz78817

      are we talking Asian-american students, or “international” students? I know for a fact that if I was entering university today, I would not be able to afford to go to the school I graduated from. the tuition has grown at almost 3x the rate of inflation, and I’m all but convinced one reason for it is because families of international students will pay pretty much any price.

      • AvatarCJinSD

        It is mostly because Barrack Hussein Obama turned on the unlimited student loan tap as a mechanism for making campus radicals wealthy and powerful while economically destroying a generation of young Americans.

          • AvatarCJinSD

            UVA tuition and fees for instate students in 2008 totaled $9,300. Last year, it was $16,155. I graduated from college in 1993. The tuition rose about 50% in the 15 years that followed, then rose by 74% in about half the time under Obama’s student loan policies. UVA’s real estate empire is swallowing my hometown as I write this after having grown by about a golf course in the previous half a century. People have always complained about the cost of college tuition, but it has exploded thanks to Obama’s redistributionist approach.

          • Avatarjz78817

            hate to tell you this, but that increase in UVA tuition is almost right in line with inflation. $9300 in 1993 is roughly $16,240 today. that was 25 years ago, after all.

            the bitching I’m doing about the school I went to is that their tuition has outpaced inflation by almost 3x. And that started in the late ’90s-early 2000s so I don’t see what Obama has to do with anything. nor do I see what Obama has to do with well-heeled international students helping drive up that tuition.

          • AvatarCJinSD

            It was $9,300 in 2008. I don’ t know where you went to school, but 2008 wasn’t 25 years ago. In 1993 tuition and fees were around $6000. The explosion happened after Obama made unlimited money available for student loans. If you’ll recall, we spent the Obama years being told that the biggest threat to the dollar was deflation, yet tuition rose 74% in eight years.

          • Avatarrnc

            There’s been unlimited money available forever. It’s just that the institutions learned that they could charge whatever they want and people would get loans and pay it. And states learned that they didn’t need to keep making the contributions for their in state students.

            Make student loans dis-chargeable in bankruptcy and you’ll see the tap cut off, next you’ll see tuition fall back in line with the actual economy and hundreds of worthless universities close down (and maybe just maybe football coaches won’t make $10 million a year from “public” institutions.)

      • AvatarJohn C.

        It is both really. If the Asian Americans are way over represented and then you add the students from Asia you are near half of many schools. Then add in that they will be much more concentrated in STEM than the Humanities, you are going to find some fields 80 % or more Asian. In a country 3-4 percent Asian. I don’t doubt the schools are making plenty of tuition but it detracts from the students experience because one of the valuable parts is the connections made. Which is another reason the legacies are so important. They went, their parents went and their kids will go and all will donate. Not so much with selling out to Asians or more than a few Horatio Alger charity cases.

        • AvatarRonnie Schreiber

          It must give you the vapors to know that you’re own legacy descendants will have to compete with Asian and Jewish legacies. As it happens, my cousin lives in Los Angeles and she tells me that there is now a measureable number of Asian women who have converted to Judaism and that it’s not unusual to see Jewish Asians at synagogues around LA.

          How scary is that? Your grandkids might have to compete with a kid who has both Jewish and north Asian DNA enhancing their IQ scores.

          • AvatarBrawnychicken

            Hahahaha, that’s awesome Ronnie. This guy is definitely rolling deep in the xenophobia and I’m sure anti-semitism is close behind it.
            Should I encourage my half Asian daughter to convert in high school? Will it help her admissions? She’s got two aunts and an an uncle who did Ivy grad schools too.

        • AvatarJohn C.

          My mother, brother, and nephew went to Cornell, not me or my daughter. I am not however embarrassed about where I come from nor where my legacy is headed. Am I to be embarrassed that my Grandmother and Grandfather born in the 1890s were PhDs. No, I am proud of them.

          • AvatarRonnie Schreiber

            Am I embarrassed that one of my grandfathers was a junkman and the other was a mailman? I’m sure that both of them could have had intelligent conversations with your own grandparents.

        • AvatarHenry

          My father was Asian, volunteered, served in the USMC in WWII and was honorably discharged. He went to an Ivy league and now you’re saying he should be excluded from an education even though he risked his life for his country?

          Get off your high horse.

  6. Avatargtem

    I’m not sure I entirely buy the conspiratorial angle of “it’s the white liberal elites keeping the poor white man down” angle entirely, but I largely share your observations and sentiments. Here is what I observed an an unnamed Ivy League school that happens to be located in the NY Finger Lakes:

    1) A Metric ton of overseas asian students, felt like at least 25% of the student body. Not local asian-americans mind you (there was a decent amount of them though). Said “FOB” Asians are not uniformly the studious and bright kids our stereotypes have generally built them up to be (many are). I specifically had the displeasure of working on two separate projects with a Korean and a Chinese grad student and found them to be fairly lazy and used their poor writing skills as an excuse to totally half-ass things (knowing that I would have to edit and rewrite it anyways). My brother observes a similar thing over at Penn State. They just had a Chinese student put a new ‘vette into a tree in a 25mph zone going 125mph; he died. Most of these folks go back to their home country with their fancy degree and don’t really benefit this country, they just displaced an American from that college. But they pay full tilt tuition so the universities love them.

    2) I took a freshman writing course about “history of race” or something like that, it just happened to fit my schedule and that’s all I really cared about. I had a few black students in there with me that had absolutely abhorrent writing, or even speaking skills to be frank. I was astounded. Same thing happened when I accidentally took a different humanities course (American Studies 101, or “fat angry native american man who grew up driving Porsches hates America” as I remember it). Conversely, there were a few black kids in my engineering/physics/chemistry courses that were absolute whizzes, they easily blew me out of the water academically.

    I’d be curious to see what it would look like to transition affirmative action to more of a federal-scholarship program that a) pushed kids into majors that prepared them for jobs the country lacked (civil engineers, doctors), and b) selected purely on higher performing kids that came from rough areas/low income, regardless of race. Come to Indianapolis and I’ll show you “Stringtown” and the Southeast side where there are very real white ghettos (white people copying the worst of poor black culture).

    • Avatarstingray65

      It is very interesting that the Leftists who constantly tell us that the rich have more than their fair share of wealth and should therefore have it taken away for redistribution to the needy, are so anxious to admit students who are most likely to pay full-tuition and/or be generous benefactors to the already filthy rich school. Huge Ivy League endowments would allow them to run for centuries with no tuition money, no federal grants, and no alumni gifts, but they operate as if desperate for cash by favoring rich legacies and rich foreign students over lower/middle-class applicants unless they are black or Hispanic. Of course rich foreign students also allow them to brag about their diverse student body representing 327 countries and 4 different planets.

    • AvatarRonnie Schreiber

      My son, my only son, Moshe, whom I love, went to Wayne State, originally in math, later switching to physics. In one of his math classes, he had a study group made up of him, another othodox Jewish boy who is a good friend of his, a south Asian Indian, and a very ghetto, very smart black guy from Detroit. Once, when the Indian was complaining about being “a minority”, Danny, Mo’s friend said, “There are a billion of you guys. There are 14 million of us.”

      Another time, when working on a differential calculus problem, the black kid suggested, “You gots to integrate the motherfucker first.”

      • Avatargtem

        I went to elementary school with a black guy who blew everyone out of the water in our regional math olympiads, super bright guy, really nice. He had family problems, was raised by his grandma. When she passed when he was in highschool, he ended up dropping out, partying a lot and blowing through all of the inheritance that she left all to him, and turned into a drug dealer. It was gut-wrenching to see. Another kid from my school who was in my brother’s grade who seemed to be on an alright track later showed up in the local papers when we were in college, sticking up Cornell students at knife-point :/ I’m thankful for folks like Nate on here who are able to help kids without good family ties to stay on the straight and narrow and succeed. The potential is certainly there.

  7. AvatarGeorge

    A bit too much conspiracy theory here. Financial firms compete with each other, not internally. I’m seeing lots of asians hired as trading becomes more quantitative and programming based. Muffy is quite content to take credit for her Asian subordinates good work.

    Having a Harvard known for graduating basket weavers or not graduating at all will ultimately diminish the brand, not serving anyone’s interests.

    That said, studies usually show people hire based on likeability, which often translates into – “he’s just like me!” This translates into (effectively) discrimination against different races as well as different classes (“badwhites”).

    An interesting study I read concludes that a great percentage of successful start ups are started by people who are “different” – whether that be race, immigration, social skills, etc. – because they are rejected by the system and need to succeed outside of it.

  8. AvatarEconomist

    Even better: “Free (public) college for all” reduces the value of the degrees that are available to the non-privileged people.

    • Thomas KreutzerThomas Kreutzer

      A college degree is almost always about where you got it. If we make community colleges free, it will increase the competition at a lower level but the only way that my AA Degree from Everett Community College is going to hold a chance against someone coming out of Harvard is if we are going after the same welding job.

      I’m actually torn about free college. On the one hand, it could change some lives and help people climb up and out of poverty. On the other, it could drag down the ability of public institutions to provide a quality education. Kids already failing i high school would just continue to fail in college.

      Maybe the thing to do would be to make them free for everyone over 30 years old. Let people get kicked around a bit and then go back if they need/want to. The average person would have a lot better idea of what to study. Meanwhile, the rich kids would go to private schools and be set up just like now anyhow.

      Having the government guarantee open-ended loans has been a recipe for disaster. We have an entire generation who squandered their opportunity and now owe a shitload of money.

      Someone in a response to a different article said something about letting a person’s proposed course of study determine what kind of loans they could get. The more I think about that, the better I like it. Want to be an engineer? Let’s see your high school transcripts, your SAT and three letters of reference from teacher or employers. Got all that and you look good? Let’s look at your potential for return/default and then we’ll finance you at an appropriate level. Want to study Gender Issues? What are your employment prospects? Not good? Sorry…

      • Avatargtem

        Tom I think you’re referring to the idea that I floated. I’m sure such a proposal would get any politician absolutely vilified, but the way I see it it saves a LOT of kids from expensive mistakes, like having hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans and wasted opportunities hanging over their heads.

        • Avatarbrawnychicken

          Tying loans to employment prospects just makes sense. You can’t borrow $50,000 to buy a used Corrolla. You can’t borrow $500,000 to buy a $100,000 house-even if you want to. No bank will make that loan. Why do they loan an unlimited amount of money to every kid with no regard for field of study? No private institution would underwrite that. And then these kids wonder why interest in student loans is so high. Duh…it’s a terrible loan. It’t like paying for college at a buy here/pay here lot.

      • AvatarGeorge Denzinger

        Out of my cohort that we graduated from small, Ohio state-sponsored universities in the mid-1980’s, I’m one of the few who is still works in their major course of study (graphic design). Of 15 people, there are about five of us who are still designers. Of the five, three of us are employed by a company/corporation and two became entrepreneurs, starting their own graphic design firms. The rest all left the field, some entirely. One of my good friends who went through design school with me was in the building trades for a while (his family’s business) but is now a successful insurance agent.

        The point is that you don’t know where opportunity will take you. Like my buddy who became a successful insurance agent, who makes more money than he knows what to do with, we never would have imagined that back in our college days. Here I am almost 35 years later, living a very average middle class life, trying to figure out if I’ll be able to retire at 67, or, if I hit the lottery, at 65.

        I don’t know that I agree with a “means testing” for college/university loans. Yes, I agree we don’t need an army of underwater basket weavers, but the idea you’re floating almost entirely guarantees a monoculture of software engineers or whatever the flavor of the times dictates.

    • AvatarRonnie Schreiber

      When my father attended Brooklyn College, I believe the tuition was free for NYC residents. My mon’s tuition at Wayne State was minimal. Of course, that was before administrative bloat inflated the cost of a college education. Certainly, into the 1960s, tuition was low enough that you could work your way through a college education, even law school.

      Still, in general you get what you pay for and there ain’t no free. Someone’s paying for it.

  9. AvatarEdp

    Your math is wrong.
    Harvard has a 98% graduation rate.
    And even the graduates in fluff majors tend to outperform.
    Think leader of the national basketweavers association….

  10. AvatarAoLetsGo

    My family history puts me solidly in the poor/bad white classification. My ancestors were dirt poor farmers or miners. But my father was smart, super hardworking and in the right place at the right time. He even shortened his surname when he left college so he appeared to be less “ethnic”.
    On his shoulders he has lifted myself and brothers above the fray. We have all done fairly well for ourselves but nothing great. Since we are all tall, good looking, athletic guys from an upper-middle class family most of us married up to a “good” WASP white girl.
    One of my ex-sister-in-laws (who now lives in Boston) takes great pleasure in derisively referring to us as that PEASANT family!

  11. Avatar-Nate

    IMO, all true and a sad state of affairs .

    I’ve been warning about the 1%’ers pulling up the ladder after them selves since the 1970’s and no one pays any attention .

    Pops was grindingly broke from the North Bronx but brilliant and flat refused to say no so he made his way through Harvard U. by working several jobs and in his last year they offered him a chance at a medical admission, he grabbed it and never looked back .

    I dislike that decent education is denied any American Citizen who wants it .

    (far too stupid to need an University education)

    • AvatarGeorge Denzinger

      I agree with Nate. I look at my relatives across the ocean and the mobility offered to them through the chances to gain more education without penalizing costs is amazing to me. One of my cousins originally went to school for computer programming Several years ago, his job was eliminated and he decided he wanted to do something different. He was able to go back to university and became a math teacher. He’s a much happier person now and teaching seems to suit him well.

      I like the idea about making community college free for residents. Not everyone is made for college however, and we need more schooling for the trades. I don’t see business offering apprenticeships (at least in the States), so it will be up to the educational system to do this.

  12. Avatarsafe as milk

    same as it ever was. social connections are everything at the ivies. it’s a football league after all. harvard undergraduate isn’t even partcularly rigorous academically.

    jews went through what the asians are experiencing now. that’s why brandeis and yeshiva universties exist. that’s why there are jewish country clubs. that’s why there is goldman sachs.

    at the end of the day, harvard is a private club. they are always going to find a way to keep it private.

    • AvatarRonnie Schreiber

      Brandeis perhaps fits your description but Yeshiva University was started so orthodox Jews could attend college in a religiously Jewish environment, not because the Ivies had Jewish quotas. I’m pretty sure that YU’s professional schools, the Einstein med school and Cardoza law school, were established some time after the Ivies ended their Jewish quotas.

      Those quotas were very real. My father was rejected by Cornell’s veterinary school in the 1940s and the rejection letter was explicit that the reason was that their Jewish quota had already been filled.

      Regarding Goldman Sachs, Jew-haters like to talk about Jewish bankers, and Jewish names are common in investment banking but most of the elite financial industry, including top banks and insurance companies, was pretty WASPish well into the later half of the 20th century.

  13. AvatarKevin Jaeger

    This lawsuit is indeed a giant piece of Kryptonite for the entire educational/legal establishment. Since the judges that will ultimately rule on it are very much a part of said establishment it will be fascinating to see how they make it disappear.

    I’m not sure how they’ll do it but I’m reasonably confident they will succeed. I hope I’m proven wrong but I’m a realist about these things.

    • Avatarhank chinaski

      At it’s core, it comes down to ‘whose in group is permitted to be overtly nepotistic, and whose can’t’.
      When in the future there is no demographic majority, this issue may go away, but it will get much worse first.

  14. AvatarSpud Boy

    Affirmative Action needs to end, period. I’m also against colleges charging different applicants different tuition rates. A college degree is a product, just like any other; as such, everyone should pay the same price. When I go to purchase a car, they don’t ask to see my 1040 before quoting me a price.

  15. AvatarSexCpotatoes

    Funny how you can’t seem to connect any dots or see how Kavanaugh is a perfect example of what you’re talking about for legacy admissions. In fact, that’s one of the things he LIED ABOUT UNDER OATH (aka PERJURY) was that ‘he busted his butt’ to get into Yale, when he was a legacy, and never got in on his merits.

    • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

      Your definition of perjury is not the legal definition of perjury. Not every legacy gets into Yale. Kavanaugh still had to excel in order to get in. In fact he had to be better than a minority admission.


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