(Last) Weekly Roundup: What We Leave To The Kids Edition

More than ever, we live in a world of two movies and one screen. Perhaps more than two movies, now. The strangest bedfellows have been created. Corporations publicly thanking the people who looted their stores and apologizing for… taking up space? For not having more stock behind the shattered windows? Last week people were being arrested for going to church. This week they’re being ignored while they burn churches. We’ve been told that it was critical for us to stay home and keep six feet apart. Now it’s apparently a moot point. The media is lecturing us that property doesn’t matter as much as human life, but nobody wants to seem to address the fact that small businesses, many of them owned by minorities, are suffering disproportionately. The NYPD caught a couple of young people throwing Molotov cocktails into squad cars; once caught, the pair were revealed to be privilege-track “BIPOC” attorneys with Princeton and Fordham diplomas. Instagram influencers are posing at riots then getting back into $85,000 Benz SUVs. A Rolex dealer was burned and looted, a police precinct headquarters burned to the ground, but the CNN Building and Teamsters HQ were also smashed up.

Cui bono?

I will say this: I don’t like what this increasingly vivid and enthusiastically-promoted series of divisions between Americans means for the future of our children and grandchildren. What did the man on the penny say about a house divided? If you feel like talking in the comments below, feel free. Try to be friendly and kind, if you can.

* * *

For Hagerty, I suggested enthusiastic replacements for a reader’s Camry.

107 Replies to “(Last) Weekly Roundup: What We Leave To The Kids Edition”

  1. AvatarCJinSD

    It’s been a long time coming. Tolerance of Marxists will be fatal to western civilization. Evil will be served in this life, and the kids will have hazy memories of how good things were before the Democrats won their apocryphal victory over the constitutional protections of individuals. I live in Virginia now, where our governor is literally a white supremacist. ANTIFA and BLM are attacking his critics and giving him a pass though, because they don’t care about racism; only about destroying Christianity and the Bill of Rights.

    Reply
  2. AvatargbKing

    We can no longer deny we are in a Cold Civil War. Racism is a Leftist weapon. It’s not about your race, gender, sexuality, religion, nationality, income, dwelling, disease or addiction. It’s about reinforcing your victimhood and telling you why you need them to save you. We are all victims of something. How you respond to that is up to you.

    Reply
  3. Avatarpsmith

    Uh, well, a little O/T here but I’m in the market and it seemed like it would be worth asking: thoughts on roughly 03-10 Subarus? Looking at Outbacks and Foresters, manual transmissions, possibly turbo though I’m not sure if those are time bombs.

    Reply
    • AvatarCJinSD

      Subaru manual transmissions are so weak that all of the rebuilders we used to use stopped accepting them. Their engines need reseals at 100,000 mile intervals. The only people who should own them off warranty are people who can afford to never ask for advice.

      Reply
      • Avatargene

        What if he’s able to loot a Subaru dealership?

        Be both safe and kind, everyone. And if you can’t do both, pick the right one.

        Reply
    • AvatarJohn Van Stry

      I have an 06 subaru forester 5 speed turbo. 144K miles. Replaced the clutch about 5K miles or so ago. Bought it used in Cali about 09 and I’m in Texas now. Transmission has never had a problem. I did replace the front half shafts and some of the other front end stuff when I had the clutch done.
      Thinking of selling it because I really don’t need three cars anymore.

      Reply
    • Avatarmrwiizrd

      After owning a 2012 forester with a manual transmission I try and steer people considering a subaru away from the brand.

      My car had the infamous oil consumption issues and I thought the overall build quality of the vehicle left much to be desired. It was plagued by rattles and undercarriage rust issues. Subaru’s successful marketing campaigns drove a rapid increase in popularity which I think led to considerable corner cutting to meet the demands of moving more and more units.

      The naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engines are also gutless and even when paired with a manual transmission will leave any enthusiast decidedly underwhelmed.

      Reply
    • Avatargtem

      PSmith I can offer some input. My brother works on a lot of these for customers in Central PA. Basically, for the naturally aspirated cars, budget for a headgasket job right when you buy the car. At least these “newer” EJ25s tend to leak externally so they give you a fair bit of warning before they go, and as long as you monitor fluids closely you can nurse one along for quite a while before things get critical (ie risking engine damage). The HG job, typically coupled with a timing belt kit (Subaru OEM ONLY), and some engine seals since you’re in there, is in the $2000 range give or take. Often makes sense to do the clutch as well on a manual, again, since the engine has already been pulled. The turbo cars of that era seem to have dodged the headgasket issues, but unless you can confirm a solid oil change history, can be risky as well. There’s a lot of heat under the hood from that turbo, tends to cook the crap out of all the rubber hoses and vacuum lines. Other than the engine, other endemic Subie stuff from this era to watch out for: frequent wheel bearing failures, smattering of emissions related CELs (often has to do with the road salt environment they’re used in), and front subframes rotting out. Again, a function of the climate they’re often used in.

      So overall, if you preemptively budget for the HG/t-belt job and don’t expect Toyota-level reliability, and seek out a car that hasn’t been used in a place with road salt, you’ll enjoy it. But that’s a lot of caveats right there.

      Reply
    • Avatarpsmith

      Damn, thanks all. Seemed like it might be a sweet spot for a weighted combination of fun to drive/storage/off-road usability/on-road usability but maybe not.

      @gtem, no-salt state and what you’re saying about turbo vs NA head gaskets tracks with what I’ve been hearing elsewhere, thanks for the details.

      Reply
      • Avatargtem

        No you’re right, they’re in a really neat niche and do drive well on road and up to decently crappy jeep trails. My brother’s friend has poured an inordinate amount into a stick shift ’09 Forester X that just barely cracked 100k before the HGs started leaked, 3 of 4 wheel bearings needed replacement, and some other stuff. But having ridden in and driven it, man it is a sweet goldilocks car. 2.5 NA motor coupled to the stick shift and a modest curb weight makes it feel peppier than you might think, the suspension and their AWD system yields a brilliant blend of long travel and impressive back-road confidence. Offroad, they reach their limit on steep+ low traction/ deep snow/sand situations. US market cars never got the low range t-case and suffer for it. You’re smelling clutch and heating up that viscous coupling quick. But they are head and shoulders above most crossovers thanks to their very decent ground clearance and that well sorted suspension.

        So if you find a clean car from a no-salt area and find a good Indie Subie mechanic, they really are great cars. The pre-05 cars seem to have higher quality all around. No wheel bearing issues. Oh but they do cook CV boots (exhaust manifold passes close by), not sure if they finally adequately addressed that on the newer ones. My brother bangs out Subie boot replacement in like 20 minutes by separating the axle while still on the car (avoid replacing the whole axle with aftermarket junk, frequent cause of weird vibrations).

        Reply
    • AvatarDisinterested-Observer

      I know I’m late to the party but I just love this line:

      “You don’t need no man to help you raise no child” shut the fuck up with the bullshit! Yeah, you could do it without a man, but that don’t mean it’s to be done! Shit, you can drive a car with your feet if you want to, that don’t make it a good fucking idea!”

      Reply
  4. Avatarhank chinaski

    Tucker knocked it out last night in as normie friendly way as he could get away with. His grocer friend should have rooftopped.

    Throwing RICO at Antifa sounds promising, but I’ll believe it when I see the hangings.

    I bet the Proud Boys sitting in prison for that brief fistfight feel pretty silly right about now.

    $2.4M in Rolexes looted. (scans NYC craigslist, checks penalty for receiving of stolen goods)

    Hizzoner’s princess also earned a trip to the pokey.

    With the SpaceX launch feels like ’68 again.

    Reply
  5. AvatarPaul M.

    Trump has to go. He can not unite. He is the most divisive president for ever. He has to go. He will not be re-elected.

    In a country that is soon majority minority, his cabinet has one black person (Ben Carson). And no Hispanics. He has zero credibility on racism. ZERO.

    His heros on financial side are Carl Icahn and Paul Singer who destroy America through Wall Street by crushing companies and then laying people off.

    He has no compassion. Zero. He has primed this by his talk and policies for four years. Don’t complain if you have witnessed his actions for past four years and was happy.

    He’ll be gone in November, count on it.

    Reply
    • AvatarCJinSD

      At the hands of Racial Jungle Joe Biden, the senile rapist? He was one of the architects of the 1994 crime bill that created the school-to-prison pipeline and mass incarceration of young black men. Your brand of stupid should be physically painful.

      Reply
      • AvatarPaul M.

        Biden will be the Democrat nominee and next president of United States. At this point any Democrat would be better than Trump.

        Reply
    • Avatarrambo furum

      “He is the most divisive president for ever.”
      I’m pretty sure that was Lincoln, who was quoting Jesus in that house divided thing BTW.
      “Carl Icahn and Paul Singer”
      Hey, cool it with the anti-semitic remarks!
      I’ll be back to laugh at you if the ballot harvesting fails. I don’t think 5% of the lootestors could be paid to vote for the No Malarkey guy.

      Reply
      • AvatarPaul M.

        In America Trump is the most divisive because if you are Hispanic, Muslim, African American, he is against you. Lincoln was fighting slavery. Trump is trying to put shackles back on minorities. You can not trun America back to BAD old days. Trump is the worst president.

        What part of my remarks were anti-semitic? There are many vulture fund owners that do the same as Elliott Group and Ichans. Watch what Lambert did to Sears. Is that good enough? Do you want more names? No different than what GE Welch and AT&T Stephenson have done to great American companies.

        I see you are already looking for an excuse for the loss. Look at those people in streets. All young. All taking over streets in every American city. Where is Trump supporters? You should see the future. No chance for Trump whatsoever.

        Reply
    • AvatarNewbie Jeff

      “Trump has to go. He can not unite. He is the most divisive president for ever. He has to go. He will not be re-elected”

      Jack said be nice. Out of respect for his platform, I’ll skip comments towards Paul M that are not constructive but probably very accurate.

      I would like to pose a few questions to you, considering you seem to be concerned about division and Trump’s inability to unite Americans: where do you think that division is coming from? Who is responsible for the chaos? Who is responsible for the partisanship? Who divides Americans by every conceivable interpretation of political identity, and is then drives those political identity divisions into every corner of their ideology, rhetoric, and policy?

      Whose mass protests, despite government/media attempts to silence them, were almost universally peaceful? Whose mass protests, despite government/media support for them, are burning neighborhoods to the ground, beating people unconscious in the streets, and killing police officers?

      Reply
      • AvatarPaul M.

        The answer to all your questions start with Trump and end with Trump.
        He started his campaign four years ago labeling Mexicans as rapists and murderers. That is DIVISION right there. Then instead of building a cabinet based on makeup of America, he chose all white men and women to his cabinet (exception: Ben Carson, and the wife of McConnell). How is that uniting us??? TELL ME. Are you telling me we can not find any African American for other secretary of various departments? Are you serious?

        Reply
        • Avatarstingray65

          Paul M. Want to take a test on political division?

          Who started the rumor that Obama was born in Kenya? Answer: Hillary Clinton (Democrat).
          Who called working class Americans “gun and religion clingers”? Answer: Obama (Democrat).
          Who called half of America “a basket of deplorables”? Answer: Hillary Clinton (Democrat).
          Who said Mitt Romney would put blacks back in chains? Answer: Joe Biden (Democrat).
          Who supported Gay Marriage first – Trump, Obama, Hillary? Answer: Trump (Republican).
          When did Minneapolis last have a Republican mayor? Answer: 1961 (last full-term Republican).
          When did Baltimore (Freddie Gray) last have a Republican mayor? Answer: 1967

          In terms of Trump’s cabinet:
          Do you believe that a cabinet should be made up of the best person for the job (in terms of ability and willingness to carry out the Presidents programs) or should color of skin be the most important criteria?
          Do you think there are lots of highly qualified blacks who would be willing and able to effectively carry out Trump’s programs?
          Do you think that blacks who would be willing to accept a cabinet position and carry out Trump’s programs would not be called an “uncle Tom” by the media, black “leadership” and Trump’s political opponents?
          If Trump is such a racist, why has there never been any complaints from his people of color employees during his long business and entertainment career? Why did he win a Bipartisan Justice Award from black leadership?

          Reply
          • Avatardelow241

            Funny how he disappears when the truth is presented. Looks mainly like a due with terminal TDS. Yes, all these things happening are due to Trump….but only because the “community organizers” and terrorists are working full time to create chaos and division in the country. This would have happened no matter what Republican had beaten Hitlary.

        • AvatarNewbie Jeff

          I think it’s interesting you’re obsessed with diverse leadership and Trump’s “failure” to make it to your liking, and the Democratic primaries eliminated every woman and minority to settle on an old white guy… the question actually is, are YOU serious?

          But, predictably, you completely fine with an old white guy because your handlers at the DNC will tell you it’s OK. You are the result of their efforts to program their subjects with identity politics: you are unable to think critically and see your own hypocrisy, you are obsessed with race, you are ultimately obedient to whatever wedge issue they create, and you will continue to reliably vote for them.

          Reply
    • AvatarDaniel J

      And Nancy Pelosi on a witch hunt unites our country?

      I’d argue he has more compassion for the working man, white or black. He’s trying not bring jobs that will specifically help poor minorities. We had low unemployment.

      Reply
      • AvatarPaul M.

        Pelosi is not the president. President is the one with real power and sets direction for country. Get your facts straight.

        We had low unemployment. True. But the income gap between rich and poor is greater than ever. What good is high unemployment if you can not buy home or rent? His tax breaks helped the companies that in turn gifted the proceeds to stock holders by buying stocks and then proceeding to even fire employees or now at the slightest turn of events firing employees: see IBM, see airlines. You must ask yourself how is it that the one percent became richer, and the income gap between them and rest of us got bigger. Is that not clear enough for you that his policies are only helping the rich?

        Reply
        • AvatarDaniel J

          The gap between the rich and poor has long been getting wider well before Trump was president. Statistics are showing that in the last 5 years the poor are making more than they ever had and are beating inflation rates.

          The other side of this is that once taxes and transfers are done, the gap has actually shrunk over time as the poor class recieves more federal assistance than ever and the rich pay more income taxes than ever.

          In regards to stocks, well, my 401k are dependant upon the performance. None of us can retire unless they do we’ll.

          Reply
        • AvatarRonnie Schreiber

          Pehaps the wisest comments on the “income gap” are those of the late, great Margaret Thatcher. Those who complain about the income gap would rather have us all poorer if it meant equality of outcomes.

          Reply
        • AvatarDisinterested-Observer

          Because of people like you the outcome of all this unrest will be the police shooting more white people to bring up the numbers.

          Reply
      • AvatarNewbie Jeff

        “Pelosi is not the president. President is the one with real power and sets direction for country. Get your facts straight”

        Literally not worth further engaging someone this retarded.

        Reply
    • Avatarhank chinaski

      This is happening *specifically because* his chances in November were at least good, despite folding on positions that got him elected. The coup failed and with luck, will be uncovered, if Barr doesn’t trip over his own dick. His handling of the KungFlu was viewed favorably by the right and center. The Trump Bucks were as big a win as something so ridiculous could possibly be. Joementia ‘you ain’t black’ is melting like a snowman in August and his potential running mates virulently hate half of America. The Bernie Bros got snookered again.

      This is a panic move on behalf of the left, albeit an effective one. That’s who bono.

      Reply
  6. AvatarDaniel J

    A few points.

    We get the government we vote for. Most municipal elections run in the 30 percent voter turnout range. Where was this anger at the voting booth? The democratic mayor in Minneapolis appoints the police chief. Just like most major cities. Some are voted in. Want real change? Vote!

    Secondly, we (the wife) got a new Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring Reserve. The Awd puts power down so much better than my 2018 Mazda 6. Every media reviewer complaining about the 6 speed transmission when everything else we drove either was a CVT or a bazillion speed transmission that couldn’t decide on which gear it needed to be in.

    It appears trade in values are falling a bit. I’m not sure this is good or bad.

    Reply
    • AvatarCJinSD

      True. it is the blue states and cities that are being destroyed by Marxist lies like the ones that turned Paul M into an imbecile unable to act in his own or any decent human being’s interest. It is public union cops that kill the odd innocent black to distract from the horrors of LBJ’s great society and those of Margaret Sanger, the worst white supremacist in the history of the world, whose plans for killing black babies are still being executed by Democrats nation-wide.

      Reply
      • AvatarRonnie Schreiber

        It’s not just the police. Public employee unions protecting police and teacher misconduct harm minority communities, which happen to have a great need for police protection and proper education.

        Reply
  7. AvatarRL

    The thing that is bothering me the most about the state of our society is that one is only allowed to have the most extreme viewpoint on either side of a given issue, otherwise they will be criticized and ripped apart in some manner by one or both sides. There is no room for critical thinking, nuance, questioning, or concern for more than one affected group. This has been illustrated with the Coronavirus situation, and even moreso with the current events.

    Reply
    • Avatarltrftc

      This.

      When the political system can only have one winner in a two horse race and voting is optional, you can ignore nuance, the moderate middle, and appeal to the extremes.

      Reply
  8. AvatarJ. Puddybuc

    The civil war didn’t start with Lincolns election – it just got violent.
    All communist revolutions are started and led by the wealthy intellectual class, and violently forced on the working population.
    The left has spent decades building power and wealth first by indoctrinating a generation through grade school and then forcing selling them into a lifetime supply of government debt for a $200K degree in “queer musicology”; which all but guarantees a life of underemployment, bitterness and poverty. All 3 of which are required for a communist revolution.

    Reply
    • AvatarRonnie Schreiber

      “Revolutions don’t come from the numb and the dumb. They are started by an educated elite.” – R’ Meir Kahane.

      Reply
  9. AvatarKevin Jaeger

    I have to say I’ve been very surprised at the lack of civic response to these riots. I understand the first couple of days took most people by surprise but by the weekend everyone knew what was coming.

    I would have thought there would be a lot more armed civic patrols protecting their neighborhoods. I know there’s been some of that but for the most part the mobs go where they want and loot and destroy freely. What is the second amendment for if not to spontaneously organize against rampaging mobs?

    Reply
    • AvatarCJinSD

      Do you think the Chinese/Soros/Slim media is going to report on how their Democrat soldiers scamper when you show them guns? It’s been happening more and more, but the only reports are first hand and ridiculed by commie puppets.

      Reply
    • Avatarsnorlax

      > “I would have thought there would be a lot more armed civic patrols protecting their neighborhoods.”

      No one wants to be the next George Zimmerman.

      Reply
      • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

        yeah. Two days ago they pulled someone out a truck and beat him unconscious. Then the cops showed up and arrested him for having the temerity to drive on a freeway currently occupied by The People.

        Reply
        • AvatarKevin Jaeger

          Yes, and then he was viciously defamed by the most senior Democrats in the state. Scandalous, indeed. And concern about justice system effectively joining the mob is legitimate.

          But are all those second amendment supporters really just going to hide at a time like this? Because that certainly appears to be what they are doing.

          Reply
          • Jack BaruthJack Baruth Post author

            The 2A crowd is in their rural and suburban homes loading magazines and talking to their neighbors about fields of fire. In some cases, like the suburbs outside Seattle, they are guarding entrance roads.

          • AvatarKevin Jaeger

            I suppose that’s an answer but we’ve seen conservatives abandon public schools, universities, Hollywood, news media, corporate HR departments, big tech, public service jobs at the municipal, state and federal levels and now there are rampaging mobs in the cities and freeways.

            But we’re confident they’ll hold the line at the entrance to the local cul-de-sac? At some point I think the response will need to be a little more muscular.

            I think a very public display of armed civic patrols would be cheered by the neighbors and in turn give the police and politicians a little more spine in putting down the mob.

        • Avatarstingray65

          It is worse than that Jack. The truck driver had just delivered a load of gasoline to a black owned gas station, and the station owner said he was the only driver willing to take the risky job. The beaten up driver was not only arrested by the police, but local politicians claimed he was one of the white supremacists stirring up the violence.

          Reply
  10. AvatarMrFixit1599

    This evening I had the pleasure of getting a hotel a ways south of Chicago. Tried to go to the Jewel/Osco. Looted. Tried to go to 2 different beer stores. Looted. I had to go INTO the ghetto to find a beer store that wasn’t looted. Then to top all of that off, Taco Bell was out of Fire sauce.

    Reply
  11. AvatarCrancast

    The patterns for comments here at RG:

    Can’t see the forrest for the trees post nit pickers vs. those enlightening the nit pickers (see last weeks round-up)

    Jack is RIGHT! I.e. Jack writes he hates dogs – “I hate dogs, dog owners suck”. Jack thinks Disney World is lame – “Disney World is the worst”

    Trump MAGA vs. Trump Sucks

    Still,one of the best commenting groups around, but maybe work more from the middle and what we can agree on while still making and debating your point of view. Perhaps most could agree that looters should be stopped and held accountable, peaceful protests are good while acknowledging the frustration and distrust are real, and that Trump can be right to push law and order while also being an insensitive asshat pandering to his base (the Bible toting photo op was as douche as they come).

    Bridge too far?

    Reply
    • AvatarNewbie Jeff

      “Bridge too far?”

      I’ll come sing kumbayah when the American Left builds the campfire… preferably not out of police vehicles and personal property.

      Until then, this is the game that leftists have created… Again, no mass destruction, looting, and killing when protests were organized against stay-at-home orders… now the world gets to watch the country burn every night thanks to the leftist/anarchist horde… I’m curious which side you think is unreasonable and incapable of tolerance…

      Reply
      • AvatarCrancast

        This issue is more complex than two sides …. but both in this short attention span, buzz-word world. Driving hard to extremes of one side or the other like Hannity vs Cuomo (pick whatever comparable you want) has proven to be ratings/clicks gold and promotes intolerance of opinions

        I will acknowledge, the left gets a massively disproportionate amount of air time. Totally agree on the coverage of stay-at-home protests which were more bi-partisan than any talking head gave them credit for being.

        Reply
    • Avatararbuckle

      “Bridge too far?”

      Yea Probably. Not everyone can be the prettiest girl in town and not everything can get settled in a nice package of compromises.

      Reply
    • AvatarCompaq Deskpro

      Now wait just a minute, I’ve thought Disneyland was lame ever since I was a kid. I thought it was lame when I heard other kids talk about it.

      Reply
      • Avatar-Nate

        RE : Disneyland :

        I’m pretty sure it depends on the age of the kids….

        We still had fun there in grand night during high school .

        I’m sure I’d love to take my 7YOand 2YO grand kids there, suffer the fools and absurd prices along with the saccharine displays and rides, if -they- dig it, why not ? .

        No one forces one to go there, right ? .

        I stopped going to Knott’s Berry Farm after taking my then 6YO son for his birthday, he loved it, I was bored apart from atchung him have a fun day .

        Then SWMBO has me take some Foster boys there back when me took in pre teens, they all enjoyed the hell out of it and I even rode the roller coatsers and discovered I no longer enjoy them…

        -Nate

        Reply
  12. AvatarCompaq Deskpro

    I’m wondering how these guys are proposing stripping the police, while their is mass looting and destruction. What level of cognitive dissonance is that? The looters deserve a polite friendly welcome? In case you thought they would only take your guns, nope, their taking the cops’ guns too. They can’t even have rubber bullets!

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/01/us/politics/police-military-gear.html

    Do they think the people who are looting are listening?

    Reply
  13. AvatarLynnG

    Jack,
    Related to the Charger article. What is your thoughts that Dodge has taken an almost 15 year old design and keep reinventing the wheel. The basic Charger as been around for a decade and a half and they still keep moving off the lot. Remember there was a time when three year old designs would be considered old news. Same thing with the Challenger but at least it is a two door sedan and there are just not to many of those around anymore. Just think if Cadillac was still pumping out 1959 Fleetwoods in 1973 would not everyone think it was a little dated. Just something to think about.

    Also, there are several Dodge dealers that will sell you a Charger with the Police Package off the showroom floor. I do not know if Dodge corporate apporves but if your reader would like to have one they are out there. They do have, to quote the Blue Brothers, cop brakes, cop horsepower, copy cooling system but with out the electonics and lights which are installed by subcontractors for the city, county, or state police agency.

    Be careful out there.

    Reply
    • Avatarsnorlax

      Jack recently wrote a column on this very subject: https://www.hagerty.com/media/opinion/avoidable-contact/avoidable-contact-57-tragic-failures-and-tremendous-triumphs-of-the-tyrannous-clean-sheet/

      I agree with Jack completely. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Unless the platform is in some way holding the car back, you don’t need to replace the platform (or the body shell, or anything else). The 2004-6 Pontiac GTO (AKA Holden Monaro), which received glowing reviews from enthusiast magazines, was based on a platform from 1966!

      The Charger/Challenger/300 trio are great cars which Chrysler improves every year, such that they remain (very) competitive in terms of features, comfort and performance. Over the years they’ve worked out all the bugs. A new platform (which isn’t happening anyway, since there isn’t enough of a market for non-luxury RWD sedans and coupes to justify the investment) would be a downgrade in terms of reliability, as it would inevitably introduce a whole new set of bugs.

      Reply
      • AvatarRonnie Schreiber

        The two best-selling cars of all time have been the Ford Model T and the Volkswagen Beetle, which used the same platforms for decades.

        Reply
    • Avatardanio3834

      There’s nothing stopping a dealer from ordering a retail Charger Pursuit, it’s just that you’ll have a hard time convincing one to do it because if you back out they’ll be stuck with something they’ll have a tremendously hard time selling unless it matches the local law enforcement spec.

      Reply
    • Avatardanio3834

      In response to the Ask Jack article, a ’15+ 8 speed R/T is right up that reader’s alley. The refresh improved quality tremendously and the 8 speed makes the car perform out of it’s league with lots of added fun factor over the 5 speed. ’15-’16 had the 3.06 rear axle available in the Super Track pack which makes the car around a 1/2 second faster in the 1/4 over the standard 2.65. The ’17 5.7L Chargers were only available with the 2.65, but added active dual mode exhaust which ups the fun factor.

      Source: I’ve had a 2005, 2013, two 2015s, a 2016 and a 2017 Hemi cars,

      Reply
      • Avatargtem

        I appreciate the input fellas! I’m the OP in the Hagerty article.

        It’s funny, once I started to window shop these LX cars, I began to realize just how MANY of these things there are on our Indy streets. Every different flavor from base Chargers to the hotter Challengers, with a lot more of the R/T and especially 392 cars than I ever suspected before I paid attention to trims.

        I agree that a ’15+ Charger R/T is still probably the most logical choice, I’m waiting to test drive one. But I’d even consider a V6 model and maybe even AWD, in Chrysler 300S guise perhaps, those look sharp as hell and there’s some insane deals on them.

        To me it’s a question of whether I simply replace the Camry with something better and a bit more exciting (cheaper V6 LX car) and then have a separate project car to get my kicks with (I really want to do something like a G-body or a sport truck out of a GMT400 with a warmed up 350). Or bite the bullet and go V8 on the daily driver and pay both moer up front and more for running costs.

        Reply
        • AvatarCompaq Deskpro

          I own a 2014 Challenger SXT Base, I have owned it since 2015, from 24K to 106K, it was the dealer loaner. I love it and I endorse the hell out of these cars.

          Pros: 305 HP, 0-60 6.1 seconds, 139 MPH, and it sounds incredibly good doing it. Best sounding V6 I’m aware of. Very old Mercedes 5 speed auto does the job nicely, has a long life in AMG and police cars so bugs have been worked out and its underloaded. Around 25 MPG, I think the new 8 speed auto would improve that. Ride is very quiet, easily beats Accords and Camry’s, on the level of a loaded Silverado. Nothing in the suspension seems tired or clunky. Handling and steering are fine, much better than the Crown Victoria it replaced, but doesn’t beat Accord in this area. Trunk is huge, and the back seats fold down, holds my bike, wheelchairs, foldable ramps, TV’s up to 50 inches, and the backseats are very good for a coupe, maybe similar to a 3 series or ATS backseat. One thing broke on it and that was a blend door in the dash (no heat) was fixed under warranty. Other than a dead battery perfect reliability. MSRP for a base Challenger is 26K, this cost me 22K. I know I can’t buy the competitors at that price.

          Cons: No tech at all, came with a basic radio with no Bluetooth, had to upgrade the radio to a Sony head unit, but the original speakers are fine. Still has the old 2008 interior, very plasticky, misaligned, creaky in the winter, but nothing actually broke. The rubber seals on the hood, the trunk, the doors, these are all fraying. Body panels are hilariously misaligned, almost as bad as the 60’s cars these are paying homage to. Rust is bubbling from the inside out at the corner between the wheel and door of the quarter panel, this is a design flaw that I don’t think is shared with 300 and Charger. Key fob gobbles up coin batteries, one every few months. Tires cost $169, which is a lot more $115 tires for my Crown Vic, but I get much better winter traction. This alone is a reason not to get the V8, the bigger tires (more like $190), brakes, and gas mileage make for a higher cost of ownership.

          These cars are very Chrysler-y, cheap and cheerful, throws a middle finger to the modern conventions of rebranding as a hybrid crossover or obsessing over crash safety and 1 more MPG. It doesn’t share the same virtues as Toyota, but I don’t think it will bankrupt you either.

          Reply
          • AvatarCompaq Deskpro

            More details, as regards to it being a “rebodied old Mercedes”, the body is from what I understand an evolution of the LH platform, which were built in the same factory as the LX cars. The LH cars were designed with a flexibility to switch drivetrain layout, similar to Taurus/Explorer platform of today. The transmission, driveshaft, differential and axle assembly are straight outta E-class, the diff even has a prominent 3 point star stamped into it. If you look under the hood, you’ll see two cameshaft sensors at each of the V printed with 3 point stars. But that’s really about it. You’ll see a lot more Mopar M’s and Made in Mexico on electronics and hoses. Some Bosch stuff, like the throttle body, different European countries. I don’t think much of this was made in the USA. This car is a product of NAFTA and a recent past when Canada was super competitive on exchange rates. Now the automakers want to close them, but the Canadians consistenly produce quality.

        • Avatardanio

          My current daily is a ’17 300S RWD with the V6 because it was acquired dirt cheap with a warranty and averages over 30mpg on my commute. Has a ton of equipment and with some stickier summer tires, it’s actually a good practice car on a road course (we’re building a race car out of the ’05 hemi car).

          If you’re satisfied with the performance of the V6 (my wife ran a 14.9 in the 1/4 in it) you can get one a year old with full warranty for ~20K. Hertz is dumping them like mad right now. Good value.

          Reply
          • AvatarEric L.

            Ah, ha! Is this a TTAC survivors reunion? The passion for Chargers sounded suspicious, but it wasn’t until I gave your username a second glance that it hit me. You had the metal-y guitar-guy avatar, right? Or am I confused?

            Now I know gtem drives a Camry. Ha. Haha. Too bad the Q50 didn’t click with you. Try a G37/Q40, instead–much more sporty, though they’re missing the (incredibly rare) 400HP twin-turbo option.

          • Avatargtem

            Eric the older G37/Q40 platform has not escaped my consideration, it was on the short list to test drive back when I looked at the Q50/Bimmer/etc. I do think the age of the platform that people see as a detriment might actually be just what I’m looking for as far as feeling more mechanical and engaged. I look at the G sedans as the logical evolution of older Maximas (I briefly owned a ’00 SE that I really enjoyed, even with an auto). I completely disregard the 04+ Maximas, they totally lost the plot there.

            and yes it seems a lot of us TTAC survivors have trickled over here as that place goes further and further down the tubes. I still browse TTAC a bit but post less and less frequently.

          • Avatargtem

            Curious to here what you’ve got cooking with that old Hemi danio. Track car? Drag? What sort of engine work being done to it?

          • Avatardanio3834

            Yep, former TTAC reader/commenter here. danio3834 over there.

            The ’05 300C we’re building is for a couple of well known budget endurance series. The engine will remain stock since 345hp is enough to be dangerous to ourselves with a hope of maintaining reliability.

            Where we’ve made improvements is in the brakes and cooling. Until late last year, Mopar performance sold a big brake upgrade kit which are the current police car bakes. Being intimately familiar with how well those brakes perform (only the Hellcat brakes perform better in the Lx world) I was able to get one of the last BR9 brake kits in the country and we’ve installed that. Miraculously the 15inch front rotors and truck-like calipers.

            We’ve also done some work to improve cooling of all the fluids, including the power steering which tends to overheat under track use if the heat isn’t exchanged properly. Hoping to have it out for a day of testing July 1.

    • AvatarMark S.

      The Charger, Challenger, and 300 remain wholly competitive by many metrics. The most obvious shortcoming is crash-worthiness, where anything less than five-star (NHTSA) and Top Safety Pick (IIHS) ratings are often regarded as failure. Interior styling and materials (except perhaps for the leather dash models) could probably use updating. But pretty much everything else is there. Surprisingly, even V6 fuel economy holds up against the much newer alternatives still in the market (e.g., Maxima, Avalon, G80, Stinger). The oft-repeated claim that these vehicles haven’t changed in fifteen years is plainly disingenuous.

      Reply
  14. AvatarRonnie Schreiber

    I’ve been saying for years that Antifa is a bigger threat to American civil society than just about anything, including the few white supremacists there are. One reason why there are few organized white supremacists is that in the 1960s the FBI put the organized KKK out of business. The DoJ should do likewise with Antifa.

    I’ve also been saying for years that America has a problem with our police that transcends race. Besides the troubling militarization of police forces in terms of equipment and tactics, the job seems to attract a disproportionate number of rectal orifices. Perhaps the first thing to do is eliminate the made up out of thin air concept of qualified immunity for police officers and government officials.

    As an aside, I think it’s interesting that while there have been demonstrations here with hundreds of people, with some arrests, Detroit hasn’t seen any serious violence, looting, or arson. Maybe Detroiters understand what unconstrained rioting can do to a city’s long term prospects.

    Reply
    • AvatarNewbie Jeff

      “…the job seems to attract a disproportionate number of rectal orifices”

      Not sure that’s fair. Does policing attract rectal orifices, or does a job dealing with rectal orifices on a daily basis create a tendency to turn officers into rectal orifices?

      Reply
    • AvatarKevin Jaeger

      I think practically everyone finally agrees that America has a problem with policing. It took a while but pervasive video of bad cops has finally shattered any illusions of those who used to reflexively back the police. I wasn’t quite one of those, but I used to go to great lengths to give them the benefit of the doubt. No more. There’s a real mindset/training problem that urgently needs to be addressed.

      I’ve also noticed the relative peace in Detroit, which is great to see. After all that city has been through it’s nice to see they’ve mostly opted out of this years senseless looting and arson. Maybe Detroit is truly on its way to recovery. One can hope.

      Reply
    • Avatarstingray65

      Good point Ronnie, and I believe the Floyd investigation will show that race had nothing to do with police behavior, and instead it was just plain incompetence or negligence. After all, what sort of white supremacist has/had an Asian wife (Chauvin) and what kind of Aryan name is Tou Thao?

      A few other complicating factors in terms of police quality: First, police unions make it nearly impossible to fire or discipline incompetent or negligent officers – already the Minneapolis Police Union official is blaming Floyd’s history of crime and violence for the way Chauvin and the others treated him – don’t be surprised in 1 or more of the 4 fired officers end up being reinstated. If you need another example, how about the recently reinstated deputy (with backpay) guarding the Parkland school, who was fired after cowardly waiting outside as the shooter gunned down 17 students. Second, remember how Darren Wilson was treated when Michael Brown attacked him in Ferguson, when everyone from Obama on down called him a racist for defending himself against a black thug? Isn’t it likely that the way officials and the media treated Wilson (and the cops involved with the Freddie Gray death in Baltimore) probably reduces the likelihood that quality people apply for police jobs? Third, Diversity is our Strength means that skin color, gender, and other “victim” criteria have become more important than ability and skill in choosing police officers, as illustrated by the Minneapolis shooting of Justine Damond by the trigger happy affirmative action Somali cop.

      As for the welcome relative lack of looting and rioting in Detroit, is there really much left to steal or burn since so much of the city was destroyed by riots and Democrat policies since the 1960s?

      Reply
  15. Avatar-Nate

    Still here in the Ghetto of Los Angeles, I finally got my Sweet to go out to – day, she’s black nearly 78 years old and terrified of being shot .

    John’s just getting ready to be a driver…..

    I wish I could have put my son in such a car, he turned out to be a way better / faster driver than I ever dreamed of being .

    Life goes on….

    -Nate

    Reply
  16. AvatarDan

    Big picture. You can’t put this all on Trump, toddler throwing a tantrum that he is. Multicultural combined with Twitter combined with first Amendment combined with democracy has been ungovernable for a while now. It’s rapidly approaching un live in the same country able.

    Medium picture. Of course they looted the liquor stores in Minneapolis. But it was absolutely shocking to me that they let them loot SoHo and Santa Monica too. Princeton lawyers throwing firebombs while DC yuppies having kittens about distancing during a pandemic last week opened their homes to scores of anarchists fleeing the police the next. I used to give rich SJWs the benefit of the doubt that they weren’t really that stupid and it was just a public act while pulling the ladders up behind them. Now I’m not so sure. That’s quite an act.

    Small picture. No looters at all here. Not a lot of houses without AR15s in them either. I went for a hike and then I went fishing.

    Reply
    • Avatarstingray65

      I think there is a strong negative correlation between where the rioting, burning, and looting took place and where the 2nd amendment protections are strongly defended by officials and the public. I also suspect that the eagerness of the police in Democrat run areas to harass, arrest, and jail barbers, joggers, surfers, and church goers only a few days ago, and their relative lack of eagerness/willingness to harass, arrest, and jail the arsonists, vandals, assaulters, and social distance violators this week is because the police prefer to use muscle against people they know are unarmed and peaceable.

      Reply
    • AvatarDaniel J

      Even from the GOP Nikki Haley:

      We spent the last couple of days celebrating our son’s graduation. Tonight I turned on the news and am heartbroken. It’s important to understand that the death of George Floyd was personal and painful for many. In order to heal, it needs to be personal and painful for everyone

      Yeah…uh huh. So people need to.be beaten in the streets?

      All these NFL and college coaches yapping about racial injustice and haven’t said a darn thing about people getting beaten. Is Bill O’Briian, Houston Texans head coach, who says he’s going to the funeral, going to go to the funeral of a a guard who died in Oakland while protecting the courthouse?

      Reply
  17. AvatarGene

    The great thing about all this unrest is that no matter what your views, you can cherry pick some facts and crow about how your side was right all along.

    Changing one’s mind isn’t a sign of weakness. Opposinf viewpoints are worth listening to before being rejected. Some of the best things I read, including some on this site, I don’t necessarily agree with philosophically.

    Reply
    • Avatarstingray65

      It will be very interesting to do a tally of arrests, convictions, and sentences given to people who dare to protect themselves and their property using guns against “protesters” trying to assault, loot, and burn, versus the number of arrests, convictions, and sentences given to the actual assaulters, looters, vandals, and arsonists. Somehow I don’t expect the mainstream media or Democrat administrations will be releasing such statistics.

      Reply
      • AvatarCJinSD

        So far the Democrats are showing every indication of having zero interest in being hurt while looting. I know of a number of situations where they moved right along when shown guns. Perhaps they’re not as dumb as fully grown Democrats, or perhaps they’ve been instructed not to create a story where guns are shown to be as effective at fighting Democrat schemes as malaria medications are.

        Reply
      • Avatarhank chinaski

        Location, location, location. See also James Fields vs. Eric Clanton. Or Justine Damond. These riots vs. C’ville or the recent 2nd A protests in Richmond. The driver following and recording the ‘jogger’ event, likely doing so to explicitly cover their asses if/when things went south, was also charged with murder.
        Many such cases! SAD!
        If you find yourself in a jam, best hope you are in the right state, or not in the wrong city in the right state, or god forbid catch the attention of the Feds doing something that even has the whiff of a ‘hate crime’.

        The media are burying this. Luckily, the miscreants gleefully record and post their activities to social media. It’s there if you know where to look.
        They hate you. They want your children dead. They think it’s funny.

        Reply
        • AvatarCJinSD

          Remember the national news stories in March about overzealous cops killing sleeping Duncan Lemp in his bed? I missed them somehow.

          Reply
          • AvatarRonnie Schreiber

            Racializing the problems with our police will prevent addressing them. Focusing on race ignores the larger, fundamental problems.

  18. AvatarWill

    With all the internet “solidarity”, does the white flight out of the city start after this? Everyone I know who says they’re down with the cause, will never actually do anything personally. Oh well.

    Reply
      • AvatarRonnie Schreiber

        If you’re referring to the ’67 Detroit riot, much, if not most, of white flight to the suburbs took place before the riot. In the 1950s about a half million people moved out of Detroit into the suburbs. The inner ring of suburbs was being developed at the same time that they were still building new construction in Detroit. My parents bought a newly built house in the outer ring of Detroit, a half mile inside the city limits, in 1952. The house I owned with my ex in a suburb adjacent to Detroit was built in 1955. People wanted another bedroom and a bigger backyard.

        What fled Detroit after the riot were the small and medium sized businesses that didn’t have the huge capital investment that larger companies had in their facilities. It’s hard to move an assembly plant. It’s much easier to move a business with a dozen employees. Why put razor wire around the employee parking lot when you can move to a brand new building in Warren?

        Reply
  19. AvatarHarrison Bergeron

    Unfortunately this will be a lost opportunity to have a true discussion about the over militarization of our police forces and their abuse of power. These other groups of pro communists, antifa, and democrats against Trump have latched onto it and made it an event to protest him instead of an ailing system of police brutality that has been around for decades. What could have been peaceful events with a show of solidarity from all sides who oppose the police state we live in has now become nothing more than an us vs them scenario. Hats off to the media for being able to spin it that way, by trying to point out that the protesters in Michigan were not attacked, never mind that they were peaceful, walked into a building they were allowed to be in,and left when it was closing without incident. Now instead of both sides coming together to decry government overreach we again have been pushed into an us vs them mentality where the people left of center view the pro 2A crowd as the enemy because they didn’t get tear gassed and it had to be because they were white. If they were black they would have been attacked(the media told me so). Please just don’t mention the protest group of black gun owners who also went to the Michigan capital without incident as well, or the armed black protesters in Georgia who also had no incidences. It has become very clear that this is just another last ditch effort by the media and Democrats to try and sway this election since the Rona lockdown support was fizzling out. Notice how Whitmer railed against protesters against her not wearing masks or distancing, but now has eliminated the stay at home order when questioned why she didn’t have the same response to the looters and rioters.

    Reply
    • AvatarRonnie Schreiber

      This won’t discussed publicly, but after watching Whitmer and some of the other Democrats, I’ve come to the conclusion that having favored affirmative action over meritocracy, the Democrats are unable and unwilling to criticize any female or minority in their party. That’s how not-very-bright folks like Whitmer, Maxine Waters, and Debbie Wasserman can achieve positions of power. Intelligence isn’t the same as ambition.

      Reply
      • AvatarWill

        The failure is that people keep voting for the same party and expect different results. If people changed their vote, then I believe this people would disappear. This is never floated as a solution considering all of this has taken place in places where one party hasn’t help power in years.

        Reply
        • AvatarDaniel J

          The problem is, people don’t understand civics. 55 to 60 percent voter turnout for President yet 30 percent for the last Minneapolis mayoral race. Mayors appoint Police Chiefs in most cities, and sheriffs are elected. With such low voter turnout, what exactly are they wanting? Maybe they should show up at the polls? Maybe back candidates that will make real change in the police culture?

          Reply
          • AvatarRonnie Schreiber

            George Soros has backed the election of hard left prosecutors in San Francisco, St Louis and elsewhere. The decisions by prosecutors whether to charge and prosecute for a variety of crimes undoubtedly affects the quality of life in their jurisdictions.

            It’s a good thing I’m not a billionaire with the power to do things insulated from the consequences. If I was that powerful I might have my cutouts identify terminal cancer patients and offer them millions for their families if they eliminate the threat to our civil polity from certain left wing politicians and public voices.

  20. AvatarCliffG

    I have pretty much decided that there was a decision made by someone somewhere to hollow out every major city in America, and prove once and for all that urbanization is a massive mistake. First, get government to respond to a pandemic by shutting down all the businesses in the downtown core. Then, at the moment when it looked like they could be opening back up, set a bunch of rioters/looters loose to make sure everyone understands they need to stay away forever. I really can’t come up with a more logical explanation.

    Reply
  21. AvatarShocktastic

    To answer the Subaru question, current driver of a base model 2010 Forester purchased at 114k miles and currently at 144K. No problems in 3 years. Previous family member/owner had thick notebook of maintenance records detailing nearly 6 grand in repairs. 3 CV joints, a ton of front suspension parts, and a $2,000 clutch replacement that included the flywheel. All work by a local independent shop that is usually quite cheap. Things to like about the Forester: super tight turning circle with nimble but darty steering, very spacious interior with plenty of headroom for tall people (I could wear a Hoss Cartwright Stetson), astonishingly easy to parallel park, backseat easily accommodates ginormous childseats, outstanding visibility with lots of glass and narrow A pillars, good ground clearance (former CJ5 owner and current 97 4Runner owner). Cons: noisy buzzy creaky interior, very narrow torque curve that exists only between 2200 rpm and 3500 rpm, harsh engine sounds that make you sound like a club racer when you are just poking along in the slow lane.

    Reply
  22. AvatarDisinterested-Observer

    On the topic of the Hagerty article vis the 392 I made this kid’s day once. He was a clerk at a 7-11. For some reason as he’s ringing me up I say there’s a really cool car in the lot. I guess he looked like the type. So he cagily says “What is it?” I say it’s a 392 Charger. He says “That’s my car.” I say damn dude, good for you.

    Reply
    • Avatardanio

      That’s what keeps the popularity of those cars going. Nearly 500hp that the average Joe can afford.

      Reply

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