The Next American Civil War, Like The Last One, Is Blue Vs. Grey

Last week, one of our readers suggested that I read “I Can Tolerate Anything Except The Outgroup”, a long and detailed post by psychiatrist Scott Alexannder on his Slate Star Codex site. You’re encouraged to read the whole thing if you have time — it’s about 10,000 words — but if you don’t I’ll boil out the three critical parts for you in bite-sized portions. They are:

0. Tribal America
1. Never A Coward Where The Muezzin Calls
2. Just A Touch Of Grey

I will also do something that Mr. Alexander does not do, and that is: attempt to pinpoint the reason for our transition from communities to tribes.

Tribal America

Alexander starts by attempting to resolve a curious question: Why doesn’t he know any conversatives? He makes a fascinating analogy to dark matter or anti-matter: it’s all around us, it exists in the same space, but because it vibrates differently we can neither perceive nor experience it.

The Red Tribe is most classically typified by conservative political beliefs, strong evangelical religious beliefs, creationism, opposing gay marriage, owning guns, eating steak, drinking Coca-Cola, driving SUVs, watching lots of TV, enjoying American football, getting conspicuously upset about terrorists and commies, marrying early, divorcing early, shouting “USA IS NUMBER ONE!!!”, and listening to country music.
The Blue Tribe is most classically typified by liberal political beliefs, vague agnosticism, supporting gay rights, thinking guns are barbaric, eating arugula, drinking fancy bottled water, driving Priuses, reading lots of books, being highly educated, mocking American football, feeling vaguely like they should like soccer but never really being able to get into it, getting conspicuously upset about sexists and bigots, marrying later, constantly pointing out how much more civilized European countries are than America, and listening to “everything except country”.
I think these “tribes” will turn out to be even stronger categories than politics. Harvard might skew 80-20 in terms of Democrats vs. Republicans, 90-10 in terms of liberals vs. conservatives, but maybe 99-1 in terms of Blues vs. Reds.
It’s the many, many differences between these tribes that explain the strength of the filter bubble – which have I mentioned segregates people at a strength of 1/10^45? Even in something as seemingly politically uncharged as going to California Pizza Kitchen or Sushi House for dinner, I’m restricting myself to the set of people who like cute artisanal pizzas or sophsticated foreign foods, which are classically Blue Tribe characteristics.
Are these tribes based on geography? Are they based on race, ethnic origin, religion, IQ, what TV channels you watched as a kid? I don’t know.

I have the answer to that, or at least I think I do, but I’ll save that for a minute or two because I want to focus on the insight here regarding “tribes”. The Native Americans formed dozens of tribes, but modern Americans really have just two. Very few people find their beliefs evenly split across Red and Blue. Chances are that you personally hold either majority Blue or majority Red opinions.

The tribes do not associate with each other. Not on the Internet, not on the street, and most definitely not at work. In fact, it’s safe to say that most workspaces are actively hostile towards one or the other of these tribes. I wouldn’t recommend that a full dress-and-makeup “trans woman” report to work at an assembly line in Ohio. I don’t think anybody would attack them but I do think they’d be treated as if they did not exist and I doubt they’d wind up being the plant manager or even a line leader. Meanwhile, the nice people at Google have basically gone insane with their violent distaste towards anyone who holds conservative opinions.

I was working at a plain-Jane Midwestern insurance company during the 2016 election and I was shocked by how many people thought it was appropriate to yell “FUCK TRUMP!” or something similar in the middle of the office during working hours. No action was ever taken against any of the people who exhibited Trump Derangement Syndrome. I wondered at the time what the consequences would be for yelling “FUCK OBAMA!” in response. I do recall a meeting shortly after the election where a senior leader of the company dragged us into a meeting room and railed about Trump being a Nazi for about six minutes before getting down to the business of the day. I think it’s safe to say that most white-collar offices, even in the Midwest, are strongholds of the Blue Tribe.

Never A Coward Where The Muezzin Calls

I think we all understand by now that the Blue Tribe has a strong fondness for Muslims in general and the idea of Muslim immigration to the United States in particular. This has always confounded me because I have a reasonable amount of experience with Muslims both in the United States and overseas. I’ve had the crescent-and-star of Islam on my race car both here and in Asia. I’ve traveled with Muslims and I’ve eaten with their families. By and large, they are what we think of as “Red Tribe” people. They think homosexuality is disgusting. They hold women responsible for promiscuity. They are focused on family units and they rarely have much trust of people to whom they are not related. Most critically, they see no real reason to separate church and state. Even the Muslims I’ve met who drink and smoke weed and watch porn consider their own behavior to be crimes against God, not signs of liberal virtue.

In other words, they really believe in their religion. Islam is real to them. They mean it. And the tenets of Islam stand in direct opposition to Blue Tribe values. What’s up? Mr. Alexander has the answer:

What makes an unexpected in-group? The answer with Germans and Japanese is obvious – a strategic alliance. In fact, the World Wars forged a lot of unexpected temporary pseudo-friendships. A recent article from War Nerd points out that the British, after spending centuries subjugating and despising the Irish and Sikhs, suddenly needed Irish and Sikh soldiers for World Wars I and II respectively. “Crush them beneath our boots” quickly changed to fawning songs about how “there never was a coward where the shamrock grows” and endless paeans to Sikh military prowess.
Sure, scratch the paeans even a little bit and you find condescension as strong as ever. But eight hundred years of the British committing genocide against the Irish and considering them literally subhuman turned into smiles and songs about shamrocks once the Irish started looking like useful cannon fodder for a larger fight. And the Sikhs, dark-skinned people with turbans and beards who pretty much exemplify the European stereotype of “scary foreigner”, were lauded by everyone from the news media all the way up to Winston Churchill.
In other words, outgroups may be the people who look exactly like you, and scary foreigner types can become the in-group on a moment’s notice when it seems convenient.

Blue Tribe people, as a whole, don’t have a lot of affection for Muslims. But they are willing to ally with them based on a convenient mythology, namely that “Most educated Muslims don’t take Islam any more seriously than we, the Twitterati, take our own Unitarianism or High Church Protestantism.” Once you view it like that, your perspective revolves into religious moderates and agnostics banded together against redneck religious fanatics. They are kidding themselves. Even a story by USA TODAY that is explicitly designed to push a gays-OK-in-Islam narrative has to stumble over the truth: 46 percent of American Muslims think homosexuality “should be discouraged”, and they are the most liberal Muslims in the world, period point blank. The article attempts to contrast the Muslim 46 percent with “higher percentages” among “American evangelicals”, but that’s a ridiculous and deliberately misleading comparison.

Oh well. When the British enlisted the Irish and the Sikhs into World War II, they ended up providing the Irish and the Sikhs with the training and firepower that they would later on turn against the Empire after the alliance of convenience was ended. You may recall the same thing happening with this one fellow that we hired to fight the Soviets. Osama something-or-other. The question is: Once the Blue Tribe completely runs the table and wins the battle against the Red Tribe in America, let’s say in 20-30 years, what will they do with the fifty million or so immigrants in this country who have no trouble throwing gay people off buildings? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Just A Touch Of Grey

The Blue Tribe and the Red Tribe might be the only major tribes in this country, and the conclusion of their battle may be as certain as the sacrifice of Aslan, but I’m willing to bet that many of my readers don’t feel one hundred percent affiliated with the Blue Tribe. You might find the antics of “Trigglypuff” in the above video to be repulsive and disgusting. You might disagree with the notion that Lena Dunham is beautiful or the doctrine of 37 genders or the assertion that the many demonstrated biological differences between different groups of human beings come to a magical halt at the base of the skull. Your response to the #MeToo scandal might be “No shit, men in positions of power are going to have sex with women.” You might even harbor some slight twinges of concern about the idea of a future America with a majority population of Muslim, Mexican, and African immigrants.

If that is the case, then you might be a member of the Grey Tribe, which is described in the Alexander article but which I think is more thoroughly explained by ur-Grey-Tribe member Pax Dickinson:

Greys are a libertarian-minded tribe of live-and-let-livers. They tend to dwell online, often adopting shifting pseudonyms and communicating with each other on forums and anonymous imageboards. Amongst the Grey Tribe one would expect to see higher levels of internet savvy, fondness for tech gadgetry, and disillusionment with traditional politics. They support privacy and anonymity, and oppose the NSA surveillance regime. Edward Snowden is a Grey Tribe hero. They revere open source, strongly support an open internet, and it is by no means exaggeration to describe them as free speech fundamentalists. All three of the tribes have found a home on the internet but the Grey Tribe is born of the net and has never existed outside of it.
Many of the Grey Tribe self-identify as Blue, agreeing with Blues on many social issues while feeling disagreement with the Blues in areas economic and opposing Blue efforts to enforce political correctness. A few self-identify as Red, strongly agreeing with small government and 2nd amendment rights, but usually feeling strong antipathy or at best ambivalence toward Red social issues like opposition to gay marriage and abortion. Other Greys adopt the libertarian mantle, and many Greys disavow politics entirely. Despite their own failure so far to self label as such, the Grey Tribe does exists as its own independent culture, overlapping in areas but remaining distinct from the Red and Blue cultures.
The Grey Tribe has existed as long as the Internet but in the last few decades a generation has grown up on the internet and on its Grey Tribe culture. The numbers of the Grey Tribe have swelled while the cultural and economic power of the Grey Tribe has also risen along with the power and prestige of the tech industry. Grey industries and cultural products have now entered the mainstream and with entry to the mainstream comes conflict with existing power centers.

James Damore is a member of the Grey Tribe. Scott Alexander, to his immense chagrin, admits that he has more in common with the Grey Tribe than with the authentic Blue Tribe. The so-called “alt-right” is the militant wing of the Grey Tribe; the Electronic Frontier Foundation serves as its Jesuit school.

Dickinson correctly recognizes that the Grey Tribe was born on the Net, but he neglects to mention that the acceleration and radicalization of both Blue and Red tribes could have only taken place in a connected environment. The 24/7 news cycle, the filter-bubble sites like Vox and FreeRepublic, the massive and terrifying lurch of the media into pure Blue Tribe territory — that’s all made possible by a world in which people are confronted by politics every time they look at the screens to which they’ve become enslaved.

I’m always surprised at how apolitical my BMX pals are. There’s a reason for that. They work blue-collar jobs where you don’t look at the Web all day. They might do an hour of screen time a day. In today’s climate, that’s like being raised by wolves. They aren’t being force-fed a continual filter-bubble doctrine. They don’t quality as Red or Blue tribe members. They don’t have settled opinions on gay marriage or assault weapons. It’s not important to them. But they are the minority and their children are creatures of the glowing screen.

By and large nowadays, young people are conscripted into the Blue Tribe during their pre-teen years because the vast majority of available media is Blue. They might go to church one or even twice a week but church can’t compete with the screen. This is by design and it’s considered a major victory by the Blue Tribe.

The problem is that children like to rebel. When I was a kid, I volunteered for the (William Jefferson) Clinton campaign as a way to rebel against my conservative family. But where do you go when your family is Blue and the screens are Blue and the schools are Blue? Chances are that you visit a doubleplusbadthink site like 4Chan or Reddit’s The_Donald. Your rebellion isn’t going to be Red; the Red Tribe is yesterday’s news. They’re hicks and they are poor and they fuck their cousins and although you have no way to verify any of that personally you’ve been told those things your entire life with the same scientific certainty that explained gravity and magnetism and climate change.

Instead, you’re going to turn Grey as your rebellion. Your response to the 37-gender orthodoxy will not be a spirited Biblical defense of traditional sexuality but rather a flat “LOL THATS STUPID OK PEPE TROLOLOLOL”. You are going to look at Trigglypuff with the same contempt that children of the Sixties had for Ozzie and Harriet. You’re going to seek your own truth, and you’re going to do it among the Greys.

Allow me to make a prediction. Christianity and conventional morality in this country, the kind of ethical and moral approach that informed and guided the development of the United States from Jamestown to V-J Day, is dead. Gone. It will not return. The Blue Tribe has won. Mr. Trump’s election is proof of this, not a contradiction. It was the reaction you get when you put somebody in a corner and they fight hardest right before you cut their throat. It might take a while to grind to a conclusion but if you are a Christian right-winger in this country then you lost the war a while ago. “Immigration reform” and the triumph of television culture served as your Midway. What’s going on now is your Iwo Jima. And if there are still people praying to the risen Christ somewhere in Ohio twenty years from now that’s no more relevant than the Japanese holdouts on their islands in 1955.

The Red Tribe had a two-hundred-year run in this country. The Blue Tribe won’t last as long, because they defined themselves in opposition to the Red Tribe and many of their beliefs are eminently risible in a vacuum. The few children that they have are already turning Grey: Heartiste et al call them “Generation Zyklon” because a constant stream of hyperbolic comparisons of Red Tribe beliefs to Nazism has effectively inoculated them against the authentic horrors of the Holocaust. Eventually it will occur to the Grey Tribe members that they would be better off without the old Blue Tribe people around, the same way that that Generation X Blue Tribe members don’t feel any moral obligation to let Red Tribers hold jobs or participate in public discourse.

Of course, there’s a minor problem with all of this. The America of 2075 will be mostly Hispanic and second-generation immigrant. That is by design. The numbers have been done by people who think that Hispanics will be faithful servants of the Blue Tribe in perpetuity, like slaves buried in the pyramid to serve the Pharoah in the afterlife. I’m not so sure.

(Image stolen, shamelessly, from Up In The Valley.)

I have this crazy idea that Hispanic and Muslim immigrants have their own plans for the American future, ones that do not involve being permanent auxiliaries for Trigglypuff’s 37 Gender Parade. I won’t live to see it, but my son will. He will have a chance to see the Grey Tribe win the battle against its parents only to realize that they are now just one among many postmodern American tribes. Mexican, Somali, West African, Chinese, Salvadoran, and many more. All of them believing in things like blood and soil. The narcissism of small differences will be long gone, because all the differences around you will be plain as day.

In other words, the America of 2100 looks like the America of, say, 1600. Open up a history book and see how the arguments were settled back then. Or if this very post is history for you, if you’re absorbing it via a bio-soft implant in the year 2200 or something like that, if the future is a technological wonderland instead of subsistence farming and a daily call to worship, then I suppose that means the Grey Tribe turned out to be just as vicious as their great-great-great-great-grandparents were. Good to know.

86 Replies to “The Next American Civil War, Like The Last One, Is Blue Vs. Grey”

  1. JustPassinThru

    I disagree with the suggestion that Moslems may be natural allies of the Red Tribe. They’re religious; this is true; and their religion has a morality that they strictly adhere to. As do Fundamentalist Christians.

    But that’s all. Beyond the broad strokes of forbidding sexual license (and blasphemy) there’s little in common, their morality and Traditional Americans.

    Red Tribe people have a set of beliefs – not all of them are held by all; and not all are in the same order of importance; but those beliefs are to American traditions; American precepts of limited government, the Rights of Man; of the sovereignty of the Individual; and of Federalism (the States being sovereign and with plenary powers; the Union government being limited; and all power vested in, and coming from, the Citizens).

    Moslems see State and Faith as one. Sharia Law is the only law; and it is overseen by, imposed by, mullahs.

    As well, I would put what you call the Gray Tribe into, not a group, but a body of pilgrims or freebooters. They are marked not by belief, but that they believe none of this. They don’t see it as important. They welcome Moslems because “it doesn’t matter what your faith is.” They reject Red Tribes because to the Red Tribes, those beliefs DO matter; and they reject the Blue Tribe because Blue Tribe dogma, is just-flat demented. They see it as people repeating shibboleths they don’t believe, and they want no part of it.

    Unfortunately, in the coalescing conflict, there will be no room for disbelievers.

    Remember, in the War for Independence, you had thirty percent who aggressively wanted independence from the Crown. Thirty percent were vocally loyal to the crown; and forty percent didn’t see it as their fight. That was the Gray Tribe of the times.

    But this time such agnosticism will not be tolerated. The Blue Tribe, for reasons that baffle me, are welcoming the Moslems. And while the Moslems reject virtually all the Blue Tribe’s beliefs, they are there, as they are here, to subjugate and dominate.

    And there is no room for a Gray Tribe in the Moslems’ worldview.

      • rpn453

        TLDR: Adopt children from people who are incapable of controlling their reproduction and raising their children instead of choosing to pass on the genes that helped to make you healthy, intelligent, and successful enough to properly raise children yourself. This will somehow make it easier for us to transport humanity to another planet within 100 years, considering that the earth is doomed and it would apparently be more convenient to populate and adapt a new planet to our needs than our own earth. Then bring in more immigrants because we are not reproducing enough to sustain our country’s aging population.

      • DrSmith

        @ Jeff.

        Yes, Canada is lost, and the US is follow right behind you…one of the ideas in Jack’s article. He calls them the Blue Tribe; however, that is being too nice. They are Democrats in name only, they are really Marxists.

        We need to have faith! The USSR was crushed; as long as the idea of United States exists is people’s minds, it will not perish, just take on a different form until it can be corrected…and it will, because there are too many of us Red/Grey types for it to go away.

  2. Rock36

    There actually may be a lot of people praying to the risen Christ in 20 years, and they, to your point, just might be both Hispanic and Catholic.

    • Hogie roll

      And who would replace it?

      This is the last country on earth with a semblance and freedom and liberty. There is no where to escape to and it must be defended.

      • baconator

        China is definitely stepping into the power vacuum left by the US recent turn toward nationalism. “America First” is turning out to be “America Absent.” As a general rule, if you don’t show up to the meeting, you don’t get a cut of the spoils.

        China is very explicit about building a new empire based on trade dependencies, and *many* countries are finding it in their best interest to play China’s game:

        • hank chinaski

          Like every empire, the US overextended and is in decline. In question is whether our soft version of imperialism offered more or less ‘spoils’ to the general populace than the hard versions of the English, Spanish or Romans. I doubt that those countries have any choice in dancing to China’s tune.

      • Athos

        “This is the last country on earth with a semblance and freedom and liberty. There is no where to escape to…”


        • Shortest Circuit

          Eurotrash here, what’s so funny? Want to hear about the state of our “liberties”? (No need to go that far BTW, ask a Canadian about freedom of expression.)

  3. Robert

    I suspect all of this will come to pass, however…the people coming here to replace the Red tribe, who believe in blood and soil. What’s to prevent their children from becoming creatures of the glowing screen and turning Grey?

  4. Kevin Jaeger

    It’s difficult to predict the future as people will eventually form new tribes along alliances that we haven’t seen yet.

    But if I had to guess, America’s future will eventually look something like Brazil, with a mostly white elite forming a pseudo-democratic but thoroughly corrupt government and overseeing a highly fragmented society. California is quite a way along on that model and as usual, California tends to lead the national trends.

    But the future belongs to those who show up and are most assertive. If the Red tribe were assertive enough they could draw in some alliances of convenience and eventually assimilate some friendly immigrants. There’s a bit of that happening in Texas but at the moment one would have to bet against that type of thing prevailing, even in Texas.

    • baconator

      “a mostly white elite forming a pseudo-democratic but thoroughly corrupt government and overseeing a highly fragmented society” describes Texas politics to a tee, but here in California there is pretty broad ethnic participation in politics and the highest wages in the nation for working-class people. California is expensive, yes, but it is the least dysfunctionally-run state in the Union so far as I can discern. (I run three of my own retail-level businesses and hold a management job in someone else’s company, so I think I see a variety of industries, neighborhoods, and classes.)

      We have labor shortages and inflation here, not unemployment. There’s a reason why California is continuing to grow in population rather than shrink.

      Now, anywhere within 20 miles east or west of Rt. 99 you may find that you need to speak Spanish to do business. But there’s a helluva lot of business to be done there.

      I think this whole “Red” and “Blue” thing is mostly fabricated. I hang out with a lot of folks that look Blue on the outside but have lots of guns, SUVs, and religious beliefs. Most people, whatever their “tribe,” are just quiet about what they believe.

  5. Solo Wing Pixy

    I’m at work at the moment so I’ll comment in greater depth later, but let me suggest Lionel Shriver’s novel The Mandibles as a potential for serving as “team gray’s” manifesto. As a bonus it even has a relatively happy ending.

    I suspect that I already have my answer (i.e. that true libertarians are a tiny minority; Jonathan Haidt suggests that we’re 1-3% of the population) but I am nevertheless interested in the fact that the today’s alt-right is very different in philosophical outlook from that of libertarians who came of age as I did during Ron Paul’s campaigns. Reddit’s gold and black is very different from the Donald even if both likely found /r/physical removal to be entertaining.

    Finally I would suggest that Muslims would find them selves getting the Serbian treatment if they were to entertain ideas of American conquest.

    • hank chinaski

      Pure libertarians earned the epithet of ‘libertardian’ and reinforced the perception of their platform as the fat naked, probably stoned guy waddling across the political stage . Their defense of open borders, in the name of a free market that doesn’t exist, is exploited by Blues in their mission of importing new voters and (establishment leader) Reds in importing low wage scabs or exporting jobs. Ron Paul certainly didn’t do himself any favors going on about ‘raw milk’ in one of last hurrah speeches, even if he is spot on about foreign and monetary policy.

      I agree with Jack in that the pure Blue tribe will be the first to fall out of the mix, at least with regard to the Greys, the true-Blues being the most likely to blackball badthink (Google) and the most willing to actively depopulate themselves.

      It’s also very easy to roundly mock Blues in their mistaken belief that the dirt worlders that they import will ‘eat them last’ with every Aloha Snackbar attack, but only slightly less so to mock Reds that assume loyal Latino support because they happen to be Catholic.

      • Solo Wing Pixy

        I think that (relatively, not absolutely as that IMO would be a disaster) open borders would be tenable if we were first to abolish or heavily curtail the welfare state. I voted for Gary Johnson in 2012 (making me part of a 1% while certainly not being part of the 1%) and again in 2016 and IMO his personal story, character, and demeanor were head and shoulders above Clinton or Trump in addition to his policy prescriptions. I don’t regret that and at the least think that a moderately libertarian America is the path forward. If we are to be a diverse nation (and, real talk, that ship has sailed) it can’t be one with varying ethnic/interest groups fighting for control of and favors from the leviathan.

        All that said, I feel closer affinity to team red, even if I don’t like/agree with everything about them or their world views and values. The crazy circle of being a libertarian ends with realizing that the philosophy itself is based in a context of classical western values, such that the social conservatives probably had a point after all in spite of the fact that the culture war is done and lost on that end and that IMO they often picked the wrong hills to die on. Gay marriage? No-fault divorce was the real killer.

        I’ll admit to living in a multitude of bubbles. On the whole I’d say that I grew up in and live in a firmly red bubble, albeit in a Democrat town and house district in an otherwise blood red state. That said, I know of precisely one friend that I can say for certain voted for Roy Moore over Doug Jones, the election that demonstrated the limits of political tribalism. My county of residence went moderately for Trump and swung for Doug Jones by roughly the same margin. I voted Jones and don’y feel good about it, in spite of having loathed Roy Moore long before the allegations as to his preference toward teen girls surfaced.

        Finally, I’ll end with this: Living in a place that team blue has designated a third world shithole is something of a measure of safety. Team crescent doesn’t bomb the south and unlike the rest of the country things are and likely will remain relatively black and white. If things got truly bad and even as they are I suspect that the average white southerner would be perfectly happy to fry Dylann Roof in the most publicly spectacular manner possible. I very strongly hope that America does not devolve into a gigantic and heavily armed repeat of Yugoslavia because I’ve been on both ends of a gun and having been the one holding it while being in the wrong is an experience that one cannot undo. But, if all goes to hell and it comes to that then I extend a warm welcome to New Serbia, i.e. most of the old Confederacy and the lower midwest.

      • David Florida

        Ron Paul might be a nut, but it wouldn’t be due to speaking out about raw milk. Between the cronyism that gave us pasteurized milk from giant ‘dairies’ and the USDA-sponsored raids on small farmers, it’s one more example of where things went wrong.

    • baconator

      The alt-righters definitely want more government intervention on their behalf. They’re not libertarians. Nor is The Donald, who wants more government intervention on his own behalf.

  6. stingray65

    Thanks Jack for the very thought provoking essay. Traditionally the number one priority of a civilization is its survival, which means successful reproduction and success against rival civilizations/cultures. Rules and traditions covering such areas as gender and class roles and treatment of non-family and strangers, work ethic, future orientation, religious and political systems, etc. are developed through many generations of trial and error to determine what works and what doesn’t work under the conditions in which the civilization lives. Too many unsuccessful experiments and/or the adoption of rules and traditions that “don’t work” and/or the failure to successfully adapt rules and traditions to meeting changing circumstances often lead to the decline and death of a civilization, as rivals exploit the weaknesses and take over. Traditional red culture is what has been refined over hundreds of years in Europe, brought to selected outposts such as N. America and Australia, and based mostly on Judeo-Christian values and white male leadership in all areas outside the house (i.e. politics, religion, innovation, commerce, education, and the arts). Virtually everything we think of as “Western Civilization” is a product of red culture, and mostly white Jewish/Christian males have been responsible for everything from traditions of free-speech and religious tolerance, to ending slavery and giving voting rights to females and other “lesser” members of society, to the invention and popularization of steam engines, automobiles, airplanes, electric lights, telephones, movies, indoor toilets, frozen food, modern medicine, classical and pop music, nuclear power, computers, etc., which have has made it the world’s most dominant culture. Despite bringing unprecedented wealth and quality of life to both red and “other” cultures around the world, the great success and dominance of red values and traditions have also made it a target of those who have felt excluded or unfairly treated.

    Yet given the success of red culture, it is therefore strange that the rival blue culture has been successful in attracting many of the best and brightest from the red side in much of the western world, and promoting blue values in schools, politics, and popular media. Strange, because unlike the proven success of the red culture, there is little evidence that blue values are actually viable and capable of surviving in the “real world”. The biggest flaw of the Blue culture is its adoption of radical feminism, which has meant it is not reproducing enough offspring to maintain its population as blue women increasingly see men as unneeded or the enemy and children as less important than career and personal fulfillment. Blue culture’s belief in “open borders” and “all cultures are equal” is to some degree a response to low birthrates, but importing masses of people from primitive (but equal) cultures means the newcomers mostly do not have the skills and abilities to be productive members of an advanced economy and provide support for the blue welfare state, while at the same time bringing their own culture that is almost totally at odds with the blue culture. Yet the elite members of the blue culture are able to isolate themselves from the mess they are creating by living in segregated communities, schools, and workplaces, while also using their political connections to protect their jobs and wealth from outsourcing and the taxman, and hence do not have to deal with the daily costs and consequences of their failing cultural model. Yet one day the wall of their gated community will break down, and the blue childless women and their feminized men, who have voluntarily surrendered their guns, are going to be wondering why their phones aren’t working as they try calling 911 to keep themselves from figuratively and literally experiencing the rape culture they have invented, imported, and nourished.

    • Eric H

      “Virtually everything we think of as “Western Civilization” is a product of red culture…”
      Thanks for the laugh.
      Editing that sentence to “Virtually everything we think of as “Western Civilization” is a product of subverting the red culture of the time…” makes it closer to the truth.

      • stingray65

        Eric H. You really should brush up on your history. You are very quick to criticize, but never bring any facts or examples to the table to support your point of view, which is pretty much the standard operating procedure of the left/blue side.

        • Eric H

          First off, who said I was a Blue? It’s telling about your own personal biases that you immediately think someone is not of “your tribe” when the point out the misinformation you spew.
          Since I don’t want to spend hours typing up a massive list of points, I’ll just skip to the top for those of the Red tribe: Personal freedom. Reconcile that with the Red tribes’ views of the past. I’m sure that Kings of history thought is was quite a Blue idea that someone wasn’t their subject while in their lands. And I do mean “their lands” because as a subject there wasn’t anything Royalty couldn’t take from you on a whim, including your life.

          During the course of history the concepts of personal liberty, freedom of (and from!) religion, inalienable rights, freedom of expression, and all the rest of the tenets of the current Red tribe were all frighteningly liberal views for the times.

          When were “Christian morals” at their peak influence in Western civilization? The Dark Ages. Society was controlled by “moral authority” handed down from the Pope. Woe be the person who thought and spoke the wrong things.

          I stand by my original assessment that your statement is ridiculous.

          Please, enlighten me with something that was thought of as “Red tribe” at the time that pushed civilization forward.

          • stingray65

            Eric – thank you for your thoughtful response. I think part of the confusion lies in the terms red and blue or liberal and conservative. Traditionally, liberal values have supported greater human liberty, freedom, personal responsibility, and pursuit of knowledge, which fits your historic narrative of “blue” fights against “red” orthodoxy of centuries ago. On the other hand, liberal values have most recently come to mean fighting free speech (unless the speech espouses blue values), curtailment of personal freedom with government control (aka shut down the 2nd amendment), and less personal responsibility (aka criminals and terrorists are “victims” of society), while modern red values have taken over the old “liberal” values of greater freedom and promotion of “objective” science. Thus I am looking at the past through the eyes of modern red values, while you are looking at the past from the old liberal values, and hence I think we largely agree on many aspects.

          • baconator

            Yup, this. The French Revolution and the American Revolution were both *against* religious authority as well as monarchies. Religion brought us the Dark Ages and science & commerce brought us the Enlightenment.

            If there weren’t real consequences, it would be lots of fun to watch Reddit addicts re-write 500 years of history to suit their narrative.

          • rambo furum

            “Woe be the person who thought and spoke the wrong things.”
            Tell Ursula Haverbeck, Mark Meechan, or Alison Chabolz about the great freedom of expression that they enjoy.

      • Mopar4wd

        I’m going to agree with Eric here. Really thinking all that was just the result of traditional red culture is well just not true. I think a balance of Blue and Red culture is what actually drove lots of it. I would argue that things like civil rights women voting and even emancipation were driven from blue ideals ( yes I know Lincoln was a Republican but party ideals of both parties have shifted over the years). I would also argue that lots of thew worlds great arts and invention was driven from blue ideals.
        Hell the pilgrims were a bunch of socialist religious wackos and they form the stock of the founders of this land.

        • Panzer

          I think you guys are missing the point here, because you seem to be assuming that religious people are backwards and conformist and thus creating a false dichotomy where Religion is the enemy of societal evolution.
          I would argue that Stingray is correct. Yes, we have examples of religious repression in our past here in the west. But the Christians and Jews changed and improved society constantly through the prism of their religions. The founding fathers referenced the Christian God in the preamble to the American Constitution for instance (AFAIK they were all Christians themselves too). The original agitators for Women’s rights were conservative Christian women who argued that educated women made better mothers and that the superior moral character of women would clean up Politics. Let’s not even get started on how much nicer Israel is than its enemies…

  7. Jeff Zekas

    Perfectly stated, Jack. I remember a song from the sixties, “Won’t Get Fooled Again” but they did get complacent, those boomers, and lazy and stupid and selfish. As for me? I see the future: I am converting to Islam, which will be the winning team.

  8. silentsod

    I think my primary issue with the Blue tribe is that many of their viewpoints seem thoroughly misaligned with tangible reality. To wit – I subscribe to the notion that “one” or “oneness” is an innate ordering in the universe and that humans essentially discovered and came to be able to articulate a preexisting reality of the one. We perceive one sheep and we can abstract one into language and eventually through many millennia we arrive at things like mathematics (1+1 = 2! [get it?]), empirical sciences (we experience gravitational pull at 9.8m/s^2 derived from observational experiments), etc. It all started, though, with using our physical senses to derive information which is really true about the world. Now we’re living in a world where people can claim to be scale-less yellow dragon-kin and society says we need to accept what they’re saying and not commit them to an institution despite the fact that we know a) dragons do not exist in the way they do in the Forgotten Realms so you weren’t a dragon in another life b) this person is definitely not a dragon kin c) the DNA checks out human. One tribe in America would have me disbelieve my eyes and bow to insane whims whereas the other two seem generally more interested in letting me trust what I can see (and later verify via lab tests).

  9. Hogie roll

    Black pills abound, no thanks.

    Your ability to recognize a pattern and make a straight line projection of it into the future is midwit analysis and I think you’re smarter than that.

    America has been on a leftward slide for 100 years but I don’t see any reason that we could not have the same type of transition for 100 years in the other direction. Generation Z could in fact be the inflection point.

  10. Kvndoom

    Sorry if I’m more than a little thankful that not all of those great Christian values of the 1600’s still stick around.

    I kind of like being an educated worker with a mortgage instead of a piece of property whose only function is to toil outside until I drop dead of exhaustion or disease.

    When they said “all men are created equal” it’s too bad Inigo Montoya wasn’t in the room.

    I would hope any woman with half a brain would be equally thankful.

    I mean this nation was founded on invasion and assimilation of foreign peoples. The “natives” are a fraction of a percentage of the population they once were. In that sense it’s ironic that you mention “tribes.”. So centuries later history repeats. I agree that a century from now ” American” will have a whole new meaning. We have always been a nation of immigrants and always will be.

    • Hogie roll

      “Nation of immigrants” is a lie you’ve been gaslit into believing. This country was created for the posterity of its founders and the people that fought for it.

    • stingray65

      Kvndoom, Your criticisms of the Christian values of the 1600s is very shallow, because you evaluate the situation then by the standards of today. If you were forced to go back in time to the 1600, unless you are a masochist you would definitely want to be put down into a Christian European culture, which even then had the most advanced living standards and most personal freedoms of any place on earth. There has NEVER been a culture in history where women have dominated leadership positions, in part because they were too weak physically in a world where human and animal muscle were the only source of power, and too busy being pregnant and caring for children until they died during the birth of their 12 child. Yet it is inventions of Christian-European-male led cultures that have been the first to free women of much of the tedium and danger of traditional female roles, as modern medicine decreased child-birth death rates, modern birth control allowed some control of the timing and number of children, and modern home appliances and foods freed up female time to work outside the home. On the other hand, every culture in history has had slaves and/or been slaves at some point in its history, but it is the Christian-European-male led cultures that were the first to outlaw slavery (which is still practiced in the Muslim world).

      As for native Americans – their numbers were greatly reduced before European settlers made any significant incursions into N. America due to death from plagues caused by contact with the first European explorers. Contrary to some leftist history books, this plague was never any organized genocide, but simply the product of the physical isolation of native American tribes from other cultures, who therefore never developed a strong immune system. Similarly, the various native American tribes were constantly at war with each other and killed off or enslaved losing tribes and taking their territory. For example, the Sioux tribe was originally based in the area of modern day Northern Minnesota and Canada, but moved to their current location on the Dakota plains when they got better weapons went to war against the plains dwelling Mandan tribe and took their territory. Such intraracial tribal warfare is still endemic in Africa and the Middle-East today. Thus, the only reason the European treatment of native Americans in N. America is “controversial” is because it is interracial with one race proving stronger than the other, and therefore ended up winning. Yet even in this “stain” on American history, it should be noted that US treatment of the natives populations was far more gentle and conciliatory than what they received in most of South and Central America. For example, contrary to current leftist/blue mythmaking, the naming of sports teams after native Americans (Braves, Indians, Chiefs, Redskins, Fighting Sioux, Seminoles, etc.) was a sign of respect for the bravery, toughness, and intelligence of native Americans, and it is taken as such by the vast majority of native American tribe members today.

      • Hogie roll

        There are most definitely modern matriarchal cultures. They just don’t advance past living in squalid 3rd world conditions on their own. They certainly aren’t compatible with American culture and erode its strength.

        The women’s suffrage movement was headed up by women that immigrated to the US from matriarchal societies. It created a massive shift leftward in our voting base.

        75% of women support unrestricted immigration to the US. How in the hell can a country and culture be maintained with politicians pandering to that and men with out balls accepting it unquestioningly?

        • stingray65

          I agree that we currently have a number of matriarchal cultures, although it is looking doubtful that the most feminine of them are long for this world in their current form. I expect the first to go will be Muslim Caliphate of Sweden, which will be indicated by the replacement of the cross on the flag with a moon and star, and the beheading of the Swedish bikini team.

        • kvndoom

          In your words I hear the death throes of the “he-man” medieval ideology and sneer. Your worldview is threatened by any empowerment of the poor, the minority, or the impoverished. The Blue Tribe’s problem is that they think it’s just a race issue. It goes far beyond race. This is a collection of human beings waking up and looking in the mirror and telling themselves they were ordained by the creator of the universe to run the world.

          It’s really no wonder that a Blue Tribe even exists. The idea of a preordained ruling class always stirs resentment in those who are told they are unworthy.

          If/when the Blue Tribe does indeed take over America, they will eventually be opposed in the same manner. Like I said, history repeats.

      • kvndoom

        Medicine made women healthier and increased their longevity, but OMFG don’t let them vote!

        You speak of scientific and technological advancement. I speak of cultural thinking. What you either don’t see or don’t want to see is that without the blood and sweat of those who wanted to be treated as more than subhuman beings there would have been no Civil War, no Women’s Suffrage, no Civil Rights. And way too large a part of America’s population this very day still wishes that was the case.

        I think those in the Red Tribe are secretly jealous of Muslims in Muslim countries because they are more free to dole out punishment without due process when they witness an affront to their religion.

  11. manfromlox


    It looks like you have a semi going for the alt-right lately.

    Maybe you could do a piece at some point explaining how they are more than just hate-mongers, or why they are hate-mongers worth supporting. Or not supporting.

    I’m not seeing it, but I’m (at least occasionally) aware I could be missing something.

    • Jack Baruth Post author

      There’s no cohesive alt-right platform. It’s a distributed ideology. Some of its members would push Jews into the ovens tomorrow. Others want the country to return to the demographic and moral attitudes of 1955. And some of them just want to watch the world burn.

      The primary merit of the alt-right IMO is that it offers an alternative to the miserable orthodoxy of the modern corporate Left.

      • silentsod

        I’m trying to remember where I heard it, but the gist of the alt-right as I understand it was more or less anyone who wanted to fight against the current litany of progressive causes. The key being willing to fight and not ideologically consistent.

        I’m still trying to figure out why they came to love terms like cuck and coin cuckservative, though. Are they using it in the sexual cuckoldry manner or do they reference the behavior of the cuckoo bird which puts its eggs in another’s nest to effectively be parasitic? I suppose that makes the Blue tribe the cuckers and the Red the cuckees as they’re subverted from the inside…

        • Hogie roll

          The term was used to shame pro-amnesty republicans into doing their jobs and looking out for American citizens.

          Open immigration of garunteed welfare recipients who’s children you will pay to raise with money the government confiscated from you is government enforced cuckoldry.

        • rambo furum

          Cuckservative is a lovely term that, properly used, describes the neocon bastards that pretend to serve America or their constituents, but sell all out to Israel. Anyone that hasn’t recognized the real enemy tribe is properly called alt-lite.

          • Ronnie Schreiber

            So, nu, how come the Elders have still not sent me a check for my share of world domination?

            Jew haters would almost be funny if you weren’t so pathetic.

      • JustPassinThru

        The “Alt-Right” is mislabeled – they have less in common with Conservatives than they do with the Lyndon LaRouche cult of thirty years ago. They’ve commandeered the name, for those who like the surface patriotism of the Conservative Movement but don’t understand or who reject the underlying precepts.

        Deceit in labeling is another curse of our times – from the un-democratic Democrats, to the illiberal Liberals, to the fascist Antifas, and up to the Open Society Project – which conceives a world that looks like nothing so much as Stalinist Russia.

        • Michael Craven

          @ JustPassinThru: a trenchant observation you make regarding deceit in labelling. George Orwell had much to say on the subject; it always worth re-reading his essay Politics and the English Language.

    • Hogie roll

      Learning to understand other cultures and possibly deciding that they shouldn’t be allowed to be a part of America is now labeled hate.

      It’s just a lazy and intellectually dishonest analysis every time. The benefit is that you are underestimating your opponent. You’ve been gas lit into believing you are opposing retarded Cheeto hitler that watches the gorilla channel 17 hours a day. But you just end up crying in the streets with a pink pussy hat on because you’ve been losing since 2015.

      • manfromlox

        I think we should definitely make immigration policy decisions based on the needs of the USA versus the needs of the rest of the world.

        If there was a rational thought in that second paragraph, I wasn’t able to suss it out. Sorry.

    • stingray65

      Lox – what a lot of people on the blue/left side perceive as hate-mongering or racism of the red side, is simply their own failure to acknowledge facts. IQ is the single most predictive factor in the life success of an individual, and is the most validated and reliable measure of a human trait in the field of psychology. Ashkenazi Jews and N.E. Asians (Japan, Korea, much of China) are generally acknowledged to have the highest group IQ with median estimates ranging from about 104 to 114. The commonly mentioned IQ median of 100 is based on the IQ distribution of European-Whites. Sub-Saharan Black Africans tend to have the world’s lowest IQs at 65-75, and black-Americans are typically found to have a 85 median IQ. Pretty much everyone else on earth is somewhere between Black Africans and White-Europeans on median IQ. Men may have a very slightly higher median IQ than women (some controversy on this point), but almost certainly have a greater dispersion around the median than women, which means there are many more male geniuses and idiots than female. Please note that median is defined as the point where half the population is below and half above, so any group can have individual members that are extremely high IQ or very low IQ, but group differences in median scores means there will be relatively few black geniuses (IQ 130+) and relatively few Japanese idiots. Doing reasonably well in a reasonably useful field at a reasonably selective university typically requires an IQ of 110 or above (about 1/3 or less of the US population), while being able to independently read and follow instructions on a food package typically requires an IQ of about 90. The US military is prohibited from signing up recruits with IQ lower than about 85, because they just aren’t smart enough to deal with modern military technology and tactics. The best current evidence suggests IQ is predominately determined by inherited genes, with a smaller portion likely attributable to still mostly unknown “cultural” or “environmental” factors. Despite over 100 years of effort to find ways to increase IQ, nothing has been found to consistently help beyond providing good nutrition and adequate dietary calories during childhood, and discouraging/eliminating breeding between 1st cousins and other close family relations as is still common in Muslim populations.

      Thus IQ explains a lot of the differences in development and success when you compare racial/ethnic groups within countries or across countries and regions (Africa vs. Europe, etc.). Yet white-Europeans have the dominant culture and are responsible for most of what we would call the “modern world”, although they do not have the highest median IQ. Part of the explanation is likely due to cultural differences – being more individualistic, open to new ideas, and more tolerant of failure than the smarter, but “face-saving” and collectivist Asian cultures. The out-sized contributions of very smart Ashkenazi Jews may also explain part of the White-European advantages, but there is also some evidence that White-Europeans have a wider IQ dispersion than other races, so there just may be a fatter “genius” tail on the White IQ distribution. It also needs to be noted that IQ differences have nothing to do with individual initiative, but is almost purely a matter of luck. Evolutionary biologists and psychologists speculate that higher IQ is likely due to long-term exposure to different environments that made high IQ more advantageous for certain groups. For example, higher IQ and other traits such as strong work ethic and future orientation (aka ability to delay gratification) are associated with cultures from regions of the world with long winters, when food must be accumulated and stored in order to survive when snow covers the fields, while such characteristics are rarer in cultures where food is readily available year-round. Thus high IQ and the Protestant worth ethic likely originated from the necessity of surviving long winters, and also led to subsequent White-European dominance in contributions to education, science, commerce, and the arts, while cultures originating in “easier” climates did not need high IQ to survive, and hence did not develop the high IQ and other “modern” cultural traits, and hence have subsequently made far fewer contributions.

      The end result of these IQ and cultural characteristic differences is that there are huge differences in racial achievements, and somewhat smaller differences in gender achievement. Blacks, Hispanics, and Middle-Easterners are vastly over-represented as perpetrators of violent crime and terrorism whether they are immigrants to non-native Europe or N.America, or in their home countries. The are also vastly over-represented among failed university students, despite major efforts such as affirmative action to help their cause, and perhaps partly as a consequence are also vastly over-represented on the welfare roles. In fact, credible analysis suggests that if the US was comprised solely of Whites and Asians, there would be no budget deficit because the welfare rolls and prison populations would be vastly smaller. Now many members of the leftist/blue side will call me a racist for pointing out these facts, even though I can point to hundreds of scientific studies that support them. The fact that we are still somewhat uncertain about some elements is almost entirely due to leftist/blue pressure to often violently ostracize scientists who work in the areas involving IQ and evolutionary sciences. The leftist/blue narrative is that all differences in racial and gender achievement is based on White-patriarchy discrimination against people of color and females, but this narrative is almost entirely free of any objective understanding of science or history (i.e. it originates in gender and black/chicano studies departments). For example, it completely ignores the great success of Asian and Jewish immigrants in Western countries, where they have historically also faced discrimination, but which they have somehow overcome to generally have higher levels of education, higher incomes, lower welfare support, and lower crime rates than native White-Europeans. The failure of the blue/leftist narrative to acknowledge the facts of the human condition, also means that almost all of their policy prescriptions designed to create equality of outcome are doomed to fail. For example, forcing Harvard to replace a 130 IQ applicant with a 95 IQ applicant (of any color) is not going to increase their IQ and create the next Facebook or Google (believe it or not, most business leaders and successful entrepreneurs are very smart). Forcing women to study computer science or engineering (where they make up about 20% of students) instead of social work or elementary education (where they make up 75+% of students), is not going to make them happier or society more productive. Suing tech companies and investment banks to hire more minorities and women who don’t have the necessary IQ, education, or interest to work productively in the field is not going make society wealthier and more equal. Similarly, forcing companies to pay a high “living” minimum wage to low IQ/productivity employees is not going to be economically viable. In short, forcing the people lucky enough to be born smart, beautiful, or athletic, and with a nurturing home environment to “check their privilege” is not going to make those unlucky enough to be born dumb, ugly, or weak and with a dreadful childhood to become smarter and more productive members of society.

      What the blue side needs to do is acknowledge that people are born unequal, and stop judging people based on their group identity (i.e. victimized gay black man, victimized Hispanic woman with a penis, evil straight white male), but rather on each individual’s own merits. Only then can society develop programs that most cost efficiently maximize the positive potential of each individual, while minimizing the negative potential. Calling red side people racists for studying the causes and acknowledging differences in human achievement, and forcing them to pay for programs that are doomed to fail (but have good intentions) is not going to help anyone besides Democrats running for office, and only create greater divides between blue and red in society.

      • kvndoom

        Jimmy the Greek lives!

        Heh, I actually agree with you and I know you’re right, but that’s a soapbox I’d never be proud to stand on. And while those averages may be true, it’s the outliers that have always impressed me the most. I’ve seen dumbasses of every shape, size, race, and gender. And the same with geniuses. Shit, my older brother helped put Kepler into space. He’s a tad above 85 IQ.

        • stingray65

          You are absolutely correct that dummies and geniuses come in all colors and shapes. It is therefore stupid to automatically assume a tall black man is not very smart, but a great hoops player, or the cute blonde woman isn’t a math genius. Unfortunately that is what most affirmative action and other quota programs designed to help “victim” groups encourage everyone to do, as seeing a “victim” in a high status or selective school or profession leads most to assume the person is an affirmative action hire rather than smart and hard-working, and if the “victim” subsequently fails to impress simply reinforces a belief that this “victim” group is inferior. On the other hand, it is also stupid to believe that all people and cultures are equally gifted and valuable and should therefore all have equal outcomes, yet it is the blue side that attempts to believe both as they advocate open borders and affirmative action. As the great philosopher Forrest Gump said: “stupid is as stupid does.”

      • Ronnie Schreiber

        A couple of points. Most of the wonderful inventions we use in the modern world were not the products of geniuses but rather by smart, clever people who didn’t quite have genius level IQs. There aren’t enough true geniuses to do all that heavy lifting.

        Charles Murray discussed why Ashkenazi Jews are bumped to the right on the intelligence bell curve in his essay Jewish Genius.
        He says that it’s almost certainly genetic and he goes through a variety of theories as to its origin before he concludes that it’s due to parental selection of mates for their children in an economically oppressive culture.
        That IQ bump is not seen among Sephardi Jews, despite the facts that Ashkenazim and Sephardim are closer to each other genetically than they are to any other groups and that some of the greatest Jewish geniuses (e.g. Maimonides, Abraham Ibn Ezra, Yoseph Karo) were Sephardim. Life in the Muslim world wasn’t wonderful for Jews, but in general they had fewer economic restrictions than Jews in Europe, who were prohibited from owning land or from joining guilds.
        If all you can be is a merchant or tenant farmer, and you have a daughter of marriageable age, if you’re arranging a marriage you just might favor a son in law with a head for numbers.
        Murray dismisses the notion that the IQ bump has anything to do with the fact that European Catholics sent their smartest sons and daughters to monesteries and convents, while being a Torah scholar meant you just might marry a rich man’s daughter. He says the math doesn’t work out.

        • Hogie roll

          Jews don’t have the spatial intelligence it takes to be a good engineer or designer. IQ tests perhaps aren’t geared towards assessing these things. But it certainly gives them a horn to toot despite barely inventing a fraction of what we use in modern societies.

          • Ronnie Schreiber

            Yeah, who needs AC electricity (Steinmetz), nuclear power (Bohr), polio vaccines (Salk/Sabin), or cell phones (Hedy Lamarr/Technion)?

            I’ve invented a few things. What have you invented?

            Zora Duntov, the chief engineer for the Corvette for decades, considered by many to be the father of the ‘Vette (though he was hired after the ’53 Corvette was already designed) was Jewish. He, his wife Elfie, and his brother hid out in brothels in the south of France as they escaped the Nazis.

            Albert Kahn pretty much invented the modern factory with his architectural designs, many of them based on the reinforced concrete floors his brother invented.

            Art Ross was head of design for both Cadillac and Oldsmobile. Jerry Hirschberg ran Nissan’s design studio.

            Those are just off the top of my head.

          • stingray65

            Jews didn’t have to be engineers to be inventive and contribute to culture. I believe Irving Berlin “invented” quite a few things including White Christmas, Easter Parade, and God Bless America, and the Gershwin brothers were also quite inventive with song. I believe there was also a fellow named Einstein who made a few notable contributions to physics. Sam Goldwyn and the Warner brothers were pretty significant in the development of the motion picture industry. Levi Strauss, Ralph Lauren, and Donna Karan also made some pretty notable contributions to fashion design and marketing.

        • stingray65

          Thanks Ronnie for the Murray link – very interesting. As for genius and invention, Tom Edison said that genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration, but I still expect he was pretty high up on the IQ scale.

          • Ronnie Schreiber

            Edison told a story how he was expelled from school as uneducable and his mother ended up homeschooling him.

      • manfromlox

        Thank you for the levelheaded response stingray65

        If I believed that was as far as it went- some analysis, some numbers, a few decisions made in the best interests of the vast majority of Americans… I would have no quibble with that. We ideally should take the best information we can get and use it to make the best decisions we can for the country. Politics is our (abortive) attempt to do just that.

        Unfortunately, I’ve heard the “party line” from a no shit KKK member and certified Son of the Confederacy- I saw the certificate myself on his wall. All that stuff you just said sounds a little different coming out of a Klan member’s mouth. And that association, at least in my head, strains the credibility of much of the movement. When you use this same information to declare your superiority and authority over vast swathes of the population or as justification to demean, subjugate, detain, deport, or kill, then you’ve entered a realm of social engineering that doesn’t square with my personal version of America.

        Where I live now, racism is alive and well, and not the knee-jerk accusation kind of racism. The kind where grown black men I’ve never met or seen before don’t talk to me on a job site until I talk to them first- out of a lifetime of negative conditioning. And this is supposed to be part of the “Progressive South” so we’re ahead of the curve here. The people who say racism is dead are liars.

        I very much believe in individual achievement and individual responsibility. I also believe in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If my fellow Americans realized, as I do, that my pursuit of happiness ends where it impinges upon the happiness of another, then the country would be a much simpler (and happier) place.

        Incidentally, I spent 20 years in the military. We take stupid people when we have to. I saw more than a few rock-sucking idiots carrying guns during my time in Iraq. Like almost helmet and crayon stupid.

        • stingray65

          Thank you Manfromlox. Those of us born lucky enough to inherit favorable genes and a good childhood need to constantly remind ourselves that we have been given a gift that we have not earned. Rather than “check your privilege”, the best thing the “born lucky” can do is “maximize their gift” by bettering themselves and thereby also maximizing their value to society as good citizens, parents, teachers, doctors, managers, engineers, scientists, soldiers, or whatever positive role their gift leads them. As for racists, the best way to take the energy out of their movement is to go totally color-blind on all public and private sector policies, so that the black man at Harvard, or the Hispanic female CEO, or Chinese (legal) immigrant is recognized by all to have gotten their position based on merit and not race or gender based special favors or quotas.

  12. Disinterested-Observer

    I had to skip the comments to wonder, does this guy really think California Pizza Kitchen is artisanal? It’s just another shitty “upscale” chain. And who the fuck thinks California “style” (if they have one) pizza is any good?

    • manfromlox

      The worst pizza I had in Sicily- at the Sigonella Navy Exchange but staffed by locals- was better than the best pizza I’ve had in America.

      • Kevin Jaeger

        I’m not sure if it was intended or not, but this is a pitch-perfect parody of the type of thing someone says to self-identify as a member in good standing of the Blue tribe, as the original article described it.

        While I’m not a member of the Blue tribe my experience with pizza in Italy is exactly the same. I’m not sure why that is, when many of the upscale pizza places in my area are run by recent Italian immigrants, but so it is.

  13. safe as milk

    this is the first time i’ve heard of the grey tribe but it seems a pretty good description of me. i was raised solidly blue and i currently am working in an unbelievably blue environment. i’m stunned by the lack of critical thinking that goes on around me. this is from people with very high iq’s. the whole thing has become some sort of sporting event with everyone cheering for their team. i’ve learned as a survival tactic to be very guarded in my public comments. i’m reminded of the line from prizzi’s honor, “if he’s so fucking smart, how come he’s so fucking dead?”

  14. DrSmith

    Many times, I just don’t know what to make of any of this anymore. Reminds me of my old man whom used to be fond of saying change for change’s sake is not good – he was tali really taking about technology, not ideology, yet he was a Blue as they come and was actually a card carry Communist/Marxist – yet he married one of the most Conservative Red Catholic woman he could find. So I grew up mixed up all right!

    My thoughts:

    (1) Used to be a person entered certain professions as a matter of principle, such a teacher, doctor, policeman….you knew you weren’t getting rich off it, but wanted to make a difference – and they were the best of the best in those days, too. What has happened? For my local school district, 79% of the taxes go towards pay & benefits, and we have fireman in the local township whom get over 100K a year when the most dangerous thing they face on a daily basis are 1 vehicle auto accidents. Yes, I am old enough to remember a doctor actually making house calls….now you site in an office with other sick people and wait half an hour to see someone for less than 5 minutes. Doesn’t matter if you are Blue. Red, or Grey, if this one thing is not turned around (the idea of self sacrifice of a few of our young people for the betterment of all in local communities) then we will be nothing more than tribes scattered here and there with no real connections

    (2) You used to be able to have an opinion and voice it, even if unpopular, and were allowed to speak without fear of being labeled or ridiculed in public. it seems nowadays it is very much watch what you say group think. As someone else wrote in the comments of this article, the strength of the country came from people being able to honestly have different opinions and work towards common ground….now not so much these days it seems.

    (3) I really don’t mind other opinions…what my wife and I don’t care for is seemingly having them shoved in our face all the time. Try this experiment out – hole up in your house all day, and watch free over the air or even cable TV…doesn’t matter. Make note of all the commercials, and note the following:
    – How many of them feature mixed race couple or other alternative lifestyles?
    – How many of these commercial feature the man in married couple/family as being
    weak, goofy, just an after thought?
    – I see almost know commercials these days in which faith, any faith, is even
    To be seen as a straight white male is to be seen literally as the anit-christ or Hitler. Funny, I never think as myself as so evil or bad, yet if I watch certain commercials or TV channels, they are indirectly or very directly telling me I am.

    One more thing – while I don’t know about whom will win (Blue vs Red vs Grey) or the timing of the fall (Jack predicted 20 to 30 years for the Blues to take over) I do know one thing….there will be another American Civil War. I know because it already started 16 years ago, just that the real shooting over neighbors vs neighbors has yet to begin. But trust me, it has already begun….and that scares me the most is that it did not have to come to this. Funny thing is my father was not a Marxist until after he completed his service in WII; it could be said that Marxism won in WII..the average people were just too naive to think of that back them.

  15. Panzer

    While I agree with the some of the gist of this post, i.e, that the Latinos and Muslims while devour the ‘Blue Tribe’ once the latter has served it’s purpose, I think there is one thing you got wrong.
    I would argue that most of the ‘Red Tribe’ are actually what you describe as ‘Grey Tribers’. The idea that anyone who opposes Hillary’s Grand Agenda(TM) (and is therefore by definition a Red Triber) is nothing more than a Bible bashing redneck shitlord is EXACTLY the message of that Blue Media indoctrination you so perfectly described.
    I consider myself a ‘Red Triber’ despite meeting the definition of a ‘Grey Triber’ pretty closely, because hey, guess what? I don’t have to go to Church and read the Bible and identify as a Christian to think Abortion is wrong or that my overly privileged upper middle class white feminist mother is full of shit when she complains about how ‘hard’ she has it… Nor do I have to be a redneck to know that the existence of 57 genders is self evidently false and that Hillary is corrupt.
    And I can do all of this while fucking around before marriage too! *thumbs up*
    Lastly, on the topic of fucking around before marriage, it turns out that Feminist Communist women shave their pussies as well lol.

  16. Pingback: Your Daily Reminder That Everybody Is Hurting - Riverside Green

  17. VoGo

    I came today to read an impassioned defense of Aziz Ansari. Where is the white Charger upon which the Baruth bros should be riding to his emotional rescue?



    Political and/or Angry Jack is my favorite Jack. You knocked the last two posts out of the park. If only I could convince you to do this full time instead of writin’ about cars and bikes.

    A couple of points;

    1. When I worked for the public sector I had much more meaningful and sane discussions with the Blue Tribe than I did in the private sector. Counter-intuitive? Sure. Yet, it was so.

    2. While your argument was sound, I find your prognosis for the Red Tribe a bit too pessimistic. I regularly hang out with dudes in the Red Tribe and I’m frequently pleasantly surprised as to the extent of their knowledge of Grey Tribe talking points (The Great Erasure, Pizzagate, etc.). From a functional and cooperative standpoint, does it really matter if the Red Tribe’s against homosexualism because “The Bible says so” and the Grey Tribe’s against homosexualism because “It’s degenerate”? I would argue that it does not.

    3. Of Youthful Rebellion: My oldest took an eighth grade trip to Worshington D.C. last year. When I went to pick him up on return, 9 out of 10 boys who stepped off the coach busses were wearing MAGA hats they’d picked up as souvenirs. It’s also interesting that 4chan slang peppers all interactions between his friends. None of them even read 4chan. Gen Z’s going to be….. something else.

  19. Doug

    FWIW, my thoughts on the above.
    1. The Blue Tribe is only identifying with Muslims because they are typically brown. There is not a bit of compassion for their religion or anything else, just the usual racism and thoughts that they can “keep them on the plantation” to get continuous votes.

    2. Somewhat touched on above, once the Blue Tribe alliance has served it’s purpose we can look forward to the war among the micro groups. We have seen this at times even now as the gays and trannies have had some issues, and the #Metoo thing has exposed the rampant hypocrisy about sexual relations, and in my state there has been some cracks in the usual black-Blue Tribe alliance at times.

    3. The coming generation is a lot less blue than us Gen-X’ers. That is a good thing. They may ally with the second or third generation spawning from these immigrants when it is seen how badly the views of the Blues affect economics. Eventually the economic house of cards will fall as do all of the government perks based economies.

    • VoGo

      A few thoughts from someone on the blue side of the equation:

      1. Blues aren’t allied with Muslims specifically. We simply take up the cause of those who are persecuted for their religion, race, orientation, etc. Muslims aren’t special in that sense; it’s just that they are so often scapegoated blamed by a racist president.

      2. I see that you look forward to war. This is a typical red response to the world. Pick up a gun and start shooting. Sad, really.

      3. America’s enemies have been predicting our demise for nearly 2.5 decades. Good luck with that.

      • Matt

        As an erstwhile member of the blue tribe, I’d like to respond to point number 1. This is a seemingly noble sentiment wholly consistent with enlightened, liberal ideals. And, as members of affluent, largely secular urban enclaves, this notion of benevolent tolerance and advocacy for the downtrodden seems a logical conclusion from our experiences. After all, we all know relatively secular Muslims who are able to thrive and prosper in precisely the same way as other Americans are: by living according to liberal principles of individual freedom, agency, equality, and responsibility.

        However, what this secular perspective often fails to appreciate is the incompatibility of people who truly believe in incompatible ideologies. We tend to think of religion as a benign cultural flavoring- as Douglas Murray says, “I do yoga, she does Islam.”

        The challenge is that widely-held interpretations of Islam are wholly incompatible with western liberal ideals. This is what drives Jack and other’s confusion.

        At this point let me hand it to Trevor Phillips, the former Chair of Britain’s Equality and Human Rights Commission. In that capacity, Mr. Phillips worked to counter anti-Muslim bias, which he assumed to be predicated on bigotry and intolerance (which to a certain extent it may have been). However, Mr. Phillips has come to appreciate the incompatibility referenced above, and has now undertaken to document it scientifically. He worked with a leading poll company in England to conduct an extensive survey of British Muslims, including hundreds of in-person interviews. They found that illiberal ideas are widespread in that population, and the meme that extremist beliefs are only held by a tiny minority to be a dangerous delusion.

  20. Matt

    Thank you for this, Jack. Your writing has helped me break away from the Blue Tribe, particularly your posts during and after the last election regarding how “racism” is an over-used charge on the left that serves to brainwash and colonize people. I had not come across the “grey tribe” frame previously, but it is by and large an apt description of the worldview I have come to sympathize with. My blue tribe peers think I am an alt-right sympathizer.

    My new expanded worldview, has brought into sharp focus the main faults of the blue tribe’s worldview. You aren’t the first to suggest potential reasons for a strategic alliance between the progressives and the muslims that seems to defy all logic. Accordingly, to your suspicious mind, an alliance of convenience makes sense. I’d suggest something else: the blue tribe is primarily motivated by empathy, fueled by guilt. This is what leads to the endless virtue signalling and insufferable sanctimony. But one consistent result of this worldview is that perceived “victims” are believed to be inherently virtuous. Because most on the left got introduced to Muslims through the Israel/Palestine frame (note this issue is still somehow referred to as “the middle east peace process” even though no one seriously believes a solution to Israel/Palestine would do anything to make the Sunnis, Shia, Kurds, etc. stop killing each other), they continue to see Muslims as “victims” and they therefore deserve a prestigious position in the intersectionality olympics.

    Others I have found to be extremely poignant over the course of the past year or so are Eric Weinstein, Sam Harris, Douglas Murray, and Jordan Peterson. Peterson’s star, in particular, seems to be rising very quickly. I suspect if you haven’t come across him yet, you’d be quite taken with him as well.

    Peterson is doing a book tour in Europe right now, and made quite a splash in London. Here is Douglas Murray writing on him:

    Here is one of Peterson’s most dramatic appearances on British television that I know you would enjoy:

    Here is a produced documentary explaining Peterson’s worldview and appeal:

    I would also highly recommend Douglas Murray’s “The Strange Death of Europe” – it is right up your alley.


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