Today at the local library, they had “Heroes Day” as part of their Summer Reading Program. My mother-in-law took my kids over to meet a police officer, and they were thrilled to have to opportunity to sit in a police car.
It would never occur to either of them to be wary or afraid of the police. The police are there to help. They protect us from the bad guys. They keep us safe.
Most people in this great nation would disagree with them, it seems.
We’ve been taught through Ferguson and Eric Garner and Tamir Rice and Freddie Gray and McKinney and God knows what else that the cops are the bad guys. That they’re racists. Fascists. Not to be trusted. Then, in true modern-day Doublethink, we are told that gun ownership is only for hillbillies and Texan separatists, and that the police are there to protect us.
Combine the militarization of our police forces nationwide with the deepening mistrust of the law and I can’t help but think that we are on the precipice of something terrible.
I plan to teach my kids that if they want to be on the good side of cops, all they need to do is follow the law. Naive? White privilege? Maybe. But it can’t hurt. While I believe that there are just as likely to be bad people on the police force as there are anywhere else, I also believe that the majority of them don’t want to unholster their weapons. So I will teach my kids to never give them reason to do so.
I’d prefer that cops remain heroes in the eyes of my kids. Maybe that’s all your average cop needs to act like like one.
Cops have always been regarded as the bad guys by a very large historically voiceless section of the population. They just have very good PR. However the internet has enabled the rest of us to see the reality of what many people face from the police every day.
I’m a middle aged white guy. But I don’t believe for a minute the cops are my friend. They don’t care who is innocent or guilty. They don’t care what the truth is. The only contact we normally have with them is in their role as revenue raisers. But if a crime occurs, the cop is incentivised to put someone in jail. If you just simply, politely decline to talk to them, and ignore all their lies and manipulations, that is likely not to be you, and you get to go home versus spend a year in jail and deplete your savings.
And before I called the cops I would want to be certain that whatever was happening was worth risking some passer by being shot when they turn up.
Come from a cop family. They are not all heroes, it is a government job with good benefits. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but the heroes thing is really out of hand. Where I live I would agree with rcil 100%. If something is occurring that doesn’t warrant deadly force I would be very disinclined to involve them. They shot up a car load of high-schoolers who skipped a bill at Denny’s near me. Justified because the car was moving so obviously there were trying to run down the police (actually police moonlighting as security guards) rather than just trying to leave the parking lot.
“Cops have always been regarded as the bad guys by a very large historically voiceless section of the population.”
Bullshit on that.
I don’t know what went wrong in your life but that is a load of crap.
I grew up in a mixed neighborhood in a Chicago Suburb and the “Cops” were.
Well, hell. The “Cops” were awesome until Preachy White guys, Phony Reverends and an entire category of “Musicians” decided they were the enemy.
My father-in-law was a (white) policeman for 25 years, in (majority Hispanic, black, and Filipino) city. I’m sure one could write several versions of his story based on available evidence, ranging from “racist oppressor” to “valiant hero”. The truth is that there are no easy characterizations, not for an individual and certainly not for an entire profession. I personally believe he conducted himself in a professional manner, although he certainly expressed frustration with various facts from time to time.
In America, criminal justice outcomes are influenced by race. That is just a fact. When a community feels that the scales of justice are biased against them, it breeds distrust against the agents of that system. Again, this is just a fact. I am not saying that any actions are morally justified by the preceding statements.
I grew up in a 98% white rural community, and I personally know all of the county deputies and the sheriff. I have witnessed more than a few making racist statements in social settings (mainly by deriding our president). It may or may not impact how they conduct themselves in the field. I also have several black friends that travel through the area for work, and each has been detained for “speeding” at a rate >10 times my own experience, and I speed as a matter of principle. Could be totally random, I suppose… Based on those personal anecdotes, I can reasonably infer that more than zero police officers are comfortable expressing racist opinions in a peer group. I also can reasonably assume that, in the heat of the moment, more than zero police officers will let race “fill in the gaps” in their judgement.
I assume that, in any highly publicized event, the publicly available facts are incomplete and possibly misleading. I try to give the legal system deference to sort things out (due process, innocent until proven guilty, etc). I don’t jump to conclusions that the cops are racists and pretend that race explains everything. But I also don’t naively stick my head in the sand and assume that police are robots with no racial biases. Sometimes the truth is politically uncomfortable, and I would rather adapt my worldview to reality than vice versa.
Maybe I have just become too liberal and bleeding heart over the years. I grew up thinking that pretty much everything I just wrote was bullshit cooked up by America-hating academics and the Black Panthers. I know there are some cops on patrol right now (somewhere in the Midwest) who have that same view, which is kind of my original point…….
it’s not like this is some sort of new discussion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxOsghqUE5k
the shitty thing is that Pryor’s bit was over 40 years ago and we’re still talking about the same damn thing.
“When Did The Cops Become The Bad Guys?” Shortly after the second one was hired and they realized that “you lie and I’ll swear to it” would work.
Now I’ll be the first to say that there ARE some good ones out there, but they are getting few and far between anymore. Most seem now to think they are better than a regular citizen, and answer only to others behind the “thin blue line”.. Everyone is a suspect and is no doubt just itching to kill them. Case in point; several years ago I was pulled over in the town I live near. Cop stayed back by his car and ordered me to get out of my truck and keep my hands where he could see them. He then eased up and asked if I had any weapons. Pocket knife I replied. Made me take it out and put it on the hood of his car. He then noticed my Leatherman case and yelled “WHATS THAT?. Leatherman I replied. Get it out also he said. After giving him my license and insurance info, I asked why he pulled me over? No sticker on my license plate. I had received the sticker in the mail a few days before, and forgot to stick it on before the old one expired. Now mind you, the registration came back as valid, but because I didn’t have the sticker on, HE HAD MY TRUCK TOWED and I was about 4 miles from where I lived. After my truck was on the rollback(cop waited there until it was loaded) he got back in his car and only then would he let me get my pocket knife and Leatherman back. Oh yeah, the truck was a 3 year old Dodge 3500, and I’m a white man in my mid 50’s.
If I were to see him on fire, I wouldn’t piss on him to put it out.
Ever since police unions became prominent… or legitimate.
A non sequitur here: I am consistently impressed by the high caliber of the commentariat here. Their diction, grammatical correctness and clarity of thought are admirable. Quality writing attracts quality commentary (Reason.com excepted — but then again, their apparent crudity probably is dramatic irony).
I don’t think they’ve yet become the “bad guys.” but things are definitely fucked up when- thanks to decades of conditioning by Jerry Bruckheimer, Michael Bay, and Richard Donner- far too many of us are willing to believe everything they do is justified.
plus there’s the phenomenon where anything geared towards police use has to be “intimidating.” A kitted out Dodge Charger police car is frequently described as “mean looking” and/or “intimidating.” And at my city’s recent Memorial Day parade, the procession was led by their recently acquired armored personnel carrier, also intimidating in it’s huge size and flat black duds. this is a suburb of about 50,000 people, and the first thing that popped into my mind is “what the everloving FUCK does this city need with an APC?”
There is something to be said when you look at cop cars in other nations (even Canadia!) and see hatchbacks and imports and even Priuses! used by police. In America it has to be Detroit iron with a V8. Accept no substitute.
I really tried to think of a tactful way to express my frustration over the comments here, but I think I’m just going to go with ARE YOU GUYS FOR REAL?!?
I too have a “bad cop” story. When I was 24, I was driving my brand, spanking new VW Jetta through a nicer part of Columbus, Ohio. It was the middle of the afternoon. No joke, I got pulled over on Riverside Drive for playing my music too loud. When the cop ran my license, it showed that my license was suspended because I had forgotten to show proof of insurance for a speeding ticket I had gotten months prior. The thing is, I remembered getting the letter from the DMV and ignoring it “because I didn’t have time”…..or some other stupid excuse. Well, this guy threw me against the car, cuffed me, and called the actual transport van to come and pick me up – so, lucky me!!! I got to ride in the transport van with other criminals to the police station….where I was legitimately booked and put in a holding room until my equally wide-eyed, white girl roommate could come bail me out of jail with 1200 bucks in cash. Oh, and then I had to go get my car out of impound. All in all, awesome day.
Was the cop an asshole? Absolutely. But I broke the freaking law. I deserved it. I guess my point is this: We, as society, have become so freaking entitled that we think we should be able to justify whatever the hell we want to do whenever we want to do it. It’s no wonder that police officers all over the country are defensive. There are bad cops, but there are also bad businessmen, bad doctors, bad lawyers, bad professors….we walk a very slippery slope when we start labeling entire institutions as a whole.
I have three kids. ABSOLUTELY I want them to see police men as heroes. Why? Because most of them are. They keep my family safe. And not only that, I don’t ever want my kids to be fearful of the police because I want them to know that they can go to an officer for help if they need it. There are good cops doing good things every day……and most of us are just doing our best to live by the rules. My lesson learned? Don’t put yourself in a situation where what you are doing could even come close to being misconstrued. It’s when you start justifying bad behavior when you get yourself into trouble. Literally.
and here is a stellar example of what I was talking about. It’s OK for cops to be assholes and have itchy trigger fingers because reasons.
I’ll respect them for the job they do, because it’s a job that needs doing. But I’m not going to get into the “hero worship” line and gratefully lick their boots.
the word “hero” gets used far too liberally these days.
“Don’t put yourself in a situation where what you are doing could even come close to being misconstrued.”
Guilty until proven innocent? I bet you think civil forfeiture laws are a great idea too.
” but there are also bad businessmen, bad doctors, bad lawyers, bad professors…”
None of whom have the power to deprive me of my life because they felt “threatened”.
Last time I acted like an asshole to a cop, I was a smartassed 16 year old. Since then it has become more often them who act like an asshole to me. Again, not all, but at least 1/2 (and growing) these days
You didn’t deserve that. You deserved to receive a citation, maybe lose your license, perhaps even apprehended, depending on your local law. But unless you were resisting or hostile he shouldn’t have been violent with you.
Just because they can do something doesn’t mean they should.
I can totally get on board with the fact that the word “hero” is used too liberally….And yeah, the fat, donut-eating cop picking up speeders to meet his quota definitely doesn’t qualify as your everyday hero. But then there actually are law enforcement officers who are putting themselves at risk (often at the expense of a wife or husband and children) who should unequivocally be categorized as “heroes.” And I guess my point is, when you’re teaching little kids the difference between right and wrong, I’m okay with my little boys thinking that police officers are everyday heroes. On a different note, there are asshole soldiers too – ones who rape women and/or murder their wives or other soldiers. So should we not consider soldiers (as a whole) heroes because there are some who are most certainly not?
The similarities are strong between cops and soldiers in high-tension predicaments. Not everybody is cool under fire. Sometimes the most primal parts of our nature come out. I’ll be the first to say that I couldn’t have the responsibility of either, and I couldn’t make my livelihood by carrying a weapon and knowing someday I might have to kill my fellow man.
I’m not aware of all cops being the bad guys .
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Where I live is patrolled by L.A. County Sheriffs , a notably bad outfit .
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In general cops are fine IMO .
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You have to have lived in some third world shit hole where either cops are non existent or totally corrupt to understand this I think .
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The whole thing about comporting ones self to minimize the need to interact with cops is dead on .
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When I was a youth , I acted like an asshole more often than not , deliberately antagonized the cops so they occasionally beat me like a red haired stepchild ~ if you act like a child or jerk , expect to be treated like one , simple as that .
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Obviously there are a few bad apples , more care needs to be taken to weed them out .
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Taking your kids to the cop shop is a good thing to do but also take them to a jail cell so they can see what’s awaiting if they decide to be screwups .
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I have Teenaged Foster Boys and I give them the straight scoop , : no whining when you’re stopped and frisked .
ALWAYS be polite , you’ll never will an argument against a bullet or taser .
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If it matters , I’m lily white and archly Conservative , proudly so .
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-Nate
When there’s a post on civil forfeiture laws, we can have that discussion.
Why don’t you go back to Canada and quarter some soldiers in a time of peace?
😉
That is a “just kidding” winky face, not a sarcastic winky face.
I’m just happy that we have a female commenter. Welcome, eap.
I beg to differ. A financial investor you trust could make a bad investment and kill you retirement fund. A doctor could make a mistake during a procedure because he’s too tired or under the influence (it happens). And I won’t get into the zillions of ways a lawyer could ruin your life…..
What’s that old joke about lawyers — if it weren’t for them, we wouldn’t need any?
The point Eap makes is cruelly flawed. For one, govts have sovereign immunity in tort. The private citizens you list do not. As a general rule, government also holds monopoly over LAWFUL force initiation. Who’s to police the police, but more police (IAB’s govt too)? Do you know of the extra 10 days Maryland cops get to “get their story straight” before they submit to interrogation/statement, which no apprehended non-cop assailant gets (google Maryland’s LEO Bill of Rights)?
In my (widely shared) opinion, the only reason *some* police brutality is getting press is because of the racial grievance agenda the current administration promotes. And even there, you’ll have noticed that the cases where the most riot-rousing ire the Justice Brothers drummed up have been the ones where the cops’ use of force is more justifiable than the ones that haven’t seen much ballyhooing. I didn’t see much of any objection raised by this admin, say, when Gibson Guitars’ facility was raided by armed govt thugs for some fabricated violation of the Lacey Act.
I like “everyone hates lawyers until they need one.”
My favorite is;
99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
You can beg to differ all you want, but I have never had a doctor/lawyer/financial adviser, have a conversation with me while pointing a firearm in my general direction.
three problems:
1) none of those professions involve those people carrying loaded weapons daily (along with broad discretion on when to use them)
2) in most of those cases a screw up by people in those jobs doesn’t end with someone bleeding or dead.
3) I’m not aware of too many people advocating that we all line up to dutifully fellate financial advisers, lawyers, and doctors as “heroes” day in and day out.
You’ve obviously never been in negotiations with a bunch of lawyers. (Kidding. Sort of).
I TOTALLY agree with the point that the current admin is pushing the story in the situations. In my opinion, the current Justice Department is completely corrupt and pushing their own ridiculous agenda. But, that’s an argument for another time. I guess, though, isn’t this particular post just about what we are teaching our kids about law enforcement?? Doesn’t it make the world a dangerous and scary place if our three year olds are taught to believe that police officers are “the bad guys?”
All cops are not bad guys. I’ve met some good ones.. or perhaps they were bad ones happening to be good people for a day. Who even knows? Power corrupts, and power without accountability corrupts deeper. I think only truly good men and women can be given a badge and NOT abuse it, because in the end we are frail humans and temptation is a bitch.
But it takes special acts to be called a hero. I think people see firefighters as heroes because they’ll run into a burning house to save your children. But even they have cracks in the foundation. Back when I lived in South Hill (I refer to that as the lost decade) I had a coworker who was friends with many police, EMTs and firemen, telling me about a fire in which two minority children died. The responders did try to go in and save them, but it was just too late. All the same, after the fire was put out, one of the firefighters said to another, “oh well, that’s 2 less ni—rs in the world.” The other guy punched him square in the face and decked him.
One thing I have learned is that there are really more than two sides to a story, and in all these cases Bark mentioned, we haven’t seen, and might not ever see, the whole story. I do hate the media for only ever showing enough to lead people to a judgement.
In the early 70’s, I worked with people in the South Bronx. I walked the halls of rat-ridden tenements in the 41st Precinct, known as Fort Apache, the Bronx.
The people in those buildings hated the police, ignored and abused the law the police represented, and depended on the police to save them in time of emergency.
I came to know that the “Thin Blue Line” is really what keeps this country from anarchy.
The police officer who gives you a ticket today may give his life for you tomorrow.
People call doctors heroes every day for saving lives. Maybe the question is really how we should define a hero….??
Well, when every single adult interaction with them is fraught with peril, they’ve decided they aren’t part of the populace. Have an interaction with a police officer where he knows a fact, but not only you as the driver but your passengers know a different fact, and savor the idea that you’ve really got nothing to support yourself if you don’t have a dash cam. Have him call you “boy” and “monkey” because he wants to provoke you so he has a reason to do something. Walk up to one in public in a strange town and ask for help and be told – if you have something wrong, call dispatch; if you keep talking to me, I’ll ruin your day. Have a cop draw a gun on you at an impromptu detour and say – you go back the way you came – when you lean out the window and ask for directions because you just got forced off the highway six hours from home (pre-iphone) for the detour he’s directing.
The only conclusion – you want to be as far away from them as possible, and avoid their notice as much as possible. They are not of us mere hoi polloi.
Where I come from, you fear the cops. Big time. In some cases the only distinction between the men in blue and the criminals is the badge, as in some they do it with impunity, the other may get caught. Yes, there are some or many with integrity, but lots and lots of them are corrupt. They can kill you right away, no worries
Over there, abiding the law will not help you. For starters, you would be looked down as an idiot. The size of your chequebook may, depending on which side of the political footpath you stand and your connections, so it’s still no guarantee. Law is applied selectively.
I could go on, but that’s a taste of the the 3rd world for you in a country that decided to embrace “socialism” voluntarily.
Over here, it is my understanding the coppers have a much better image. I certainly feel much safer. I will teach my kids to abide by the law and to respect the authority. However, I still have that taste that the State’s priority is to survive itself and its elites first, protect its citizens second, so I will find a way to instil in them the malice to suspect our overlords.
Finally, I may or may not call them heroes, but I have no problem in recognising it takes some cojones to go out there and front people that won’t think twice to kill them to keep get away with their misdoings. It also takes cojones and a strong stomach to go and deal with the gutters of society. So, we need them, and anyone saying the contrary is deluding itself.
Thank you Athos ~
This doesn’t mean any Cops get a pass , it just mean the reality of no or all bad Cops is incredibly bad , one has to experience it to understand .
-Nate
First and foremost, because the cop is the man and there’s a scary large segment of this country who’ve made a literal religion out of tearing the man down. Exxon, Washington, Jefferson, Bock’s Car, complementary genitalia in the bedroom, they’re the mortal enemy because they’re your parents. That’s a positive feedback cycle. Cops know who hates them. You’ll get it back.
Second, vastly expanded laws with little or no discretion in their enforcement have put a many more putatively middle class people in front of the badge (gavel, etc). Of course Jim Stark and Mike Brown don’t like the man. But the wars on DUI, domestic violence, petty drug use, poptart shaped guns, etc. come down on people with day jobs too.
I don’t know what comes next but I’m pretty sure it won’t be good.
The average cop is the most frightened, paranoid, and heavily-armed person you’ll ever meet. Treat them as such.
I think they became the bad guys once I realized that they have the full support of their peers in abusing their powers.
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@rpn453 ;
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They don’t in fact , only a small minority of their peers are like that in case you care about facts and reality .
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-Nate