I’m truly enjoying the chaos in my Facebook and Twitter newsfeeds this morning over Donald Trump becoming the presumptive nominee last night, thanks to his landslide victory in Indiana.
“HOWWWW?” whine the liberals. “Vote Gary Johnson!” cry the libertarians.
They don’t get it.
It’s somewhat surprising that a coastal elite like Trump has been so adept at tapping into the frustration and anger felt by blue-collar, lower middle-class Americans, but that’s exactly what he’s done. The real reason Trump scares liberals is because he puts Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, and maybe even Pennsylvania into play for the GOP. The rust belt is tired of the hard left pull that the country has taken, and they identify with Trump’s call to Make America Great Again. They reminisce for the days of the Eighties. Trump is pulling Reagan Democrats out of the woodwork.
The elites think Trump is capitalizing on #fear and #hatred, which are just liberal buzzwords for #youdontthinklikeido. I, personally, have struggled to understand why Limo Liberals think the way that they do, too. That’s why I took the Bubble Quiz.
This 25 question quiz, designed by Charles Murray, helps you understand if you’re insulated from the real world. The lower your score, the more insulated you are. It’s not entirely scientific, but it can be very helpful in identifying whether or not you know what the Middle Class lifestyle is like in America.
I found the above question fascinating. “In high school, did you letter in anything?” Amazingly, elites find things like varsity sports banal. No wonder there’s so little character in America any more.
As you can see in the top image, I scored a 60. My mother was working poor—she was an in-home daycare provider. I don’t have a college degree, and neither do most of the people in my town. I have lived in a small town of about 18,000 people for the last eight years. I occasionally even eat at Applebee’s.
I didn’t go to private schools, I have never lived in a third floor walk-up, and I don’t even drink Starbucks. I like to think I’m an intellectual, but it turns out I’m just a regular ol’ country boy.
Maybe that’s why I get Trump. In fact, in the Kentucky caucuses, I voted for Trump (all you people in my newsfeed who say “I don’t know anybody who supports Trump,”well, yeah, you do).
I’m not a racist. I’m not espousing #fear or #hatred. I support many socially liberal causes, like gay marriage. I’m just a fiscal conservative who wants his America to resemble Reagan’s America more than Mr. Obama’s.
So do yourself a favor. Take Mr. Murray’s quiz, and check your non-privilege.
I got a 41, and lettered in debate, which apparently doesn’t count
But… If I answer the family and neighborhood questions as if they related to our dad and not our mom, I get this:
This goes a long way towards explaining why Bark and I come off alternately as elitist dickbags and populist nutjobs.
That (coming off alternately as elitist dickbags and populist nutjobs) is pretty much why I read you guys 🙂
58 also. I’m not sure someone could live in the Midwest for any length of time and not get this score.
This was the second thing I’ve taken in the past week that told me I basically had little to no privilege and am actually tuned into reality. I got an 81. I get Trump. I get why people are going to vote for him. I’m just not going to. And, I’m also not going Gary Johnson. Will probably lose, but I feel a lot better voting for Austin Petersen now. If my national vote is meaningless anyway, I’m throwing it away for someone I can trust. Right now, I can’t trust Trump. It’s really, really hard though… I want to vote for a winner. But, I should vote for my principles first and foremost…. winner be damned.
I’ve been involved in politics and never really got the logic in “voting for a winner”. It’s not like you get a prize. They don’t personally send you a gift for voting for them. I get that people want to feel like their on the winning team, but not if that team actively wants to eat them alive.
I get the appeal of Trump, but I have no faith in him as a person. I remember when I first saw him in the early eighties I thought he was a real scumbag huckster, and everything he’s done since has just reinforced my opinion of him. I even agree with some of his positions, but see no way he could ever do any of the things he says he’d do, even if I thought he really wanted to do a single one of them. I think this is some long con job, and just can’t trust the guy.
I am more redneck than both of you combined, have three degrees but I owned an El Camino on purpose.
I cannot claim El Camino ownership, but I do know a guy who has one. And I still daily-drive a diesel long-box pickup truck, and have at least one non-running vehicle in my yard at any given time.
Not sure why owning a pick-up counts. We had a dead car in our driveway for years living in LA….granted it was an Alfa Romeo.
Because pickup trucks are the default vehicle for blue-collar males outside the big cities. Dealerships around here have big lines of pickup trucks all waiting for new union apprentices to sign on the line that is dotted.
Plenty of rich guys drive pick-ups…especially cattle ranchers. Blue Collar factory guys did not drive pick-ups in the 80s and prior.
Not many cattle ranchers around here so I can’t comment on that, but in the 80’s almost every single one of my adult male relatives either worked in construction or they worked in “the mill.” If they weren’t driving their “mill cars” (beaters that are driven because steel mills have a way of ruining the paint on vehicles), they were driving their pickup trucks.
Not just any truck counts, but mine has vinyl seats and floor, a steel Reading cap on the bed, some dents, and 244,000 miles on the odo. It pretty much defines “utilitarian”
I’m pretty sure that at one time or another every Alfa Romeo sold in America spent some time as a dead car in a driveway or garage (I know both of mine did).
I know. But most wealthy people don’t have dead cars sitting in their driveways gathering leaves; this happens more in poorer areas.
Wealthy guys store their non-running cars in non-descript warehouses where they’re part of a collection of other non-running cars.
“Wealthy guys store their non-running cars in non-descript warehouses where they’re part of a collection of other non-running cars.”.
I met a guy during High School who kept the old Packards along side the mansion , he still does , 50 years later…..
The Coach House is for working on them , not storing them .
Multi – millionaires can be a strange bunch but the Gear head ones are mostly pretty cool .
Yeah and the Giulias are what, three years away from the same fate 🙂
I can’t wait to get a gently used Giulia from someone who has given up on it (and I’ll be sure to hang on to my Passat so I have something to drive).
I got 65 points, which I’m assuming puts me into an interesting sub-set of fellow Gen-Xers who pull down very respectable salaries and bonuses without feeling particularly rich or secure, and who still share empathy with a large number of peers who aren’t quite so fortunate.
As far as Trump is concerned, I completely understand *why* he is popular. I’ve been infuriated with both major parties for my entire adult life, and have never voted for either of the two parties in a presidential election. I’ve seen the blue-collar jobs dry up in the midwest over the past couple of decades, and I’ve experienced the effects on so many of my friends and family members. I’m disgusted with the lies that have been told to the supporters of both parties, especially as it pertains to “free trade”. I think that that the systemic destruction of the middle class poses a far greater threat to my quality of life than ISIS or gay marriage. I think that a lot of other people – perhaps a majority of voters – feel the same way.
That being said, I am not yet convinced that a billionaire who has apparently never suffered through a single shift of blue-collar work – or “simply” run a company that has produced physical product – is the best man to fix what is wrong. Maybe now that the nomination is effective under wraps, his attention will shift towards convincing us that he has real solutions. Certainly, he stands a better chance of doing so than any of the chumps that he destroyed during the primary battles. Any party that props up Jeb Bush as a presumption front-runner deserves to get turned upside-down…
53. I probably would have been much higher but I don’t watch tv or the movies very much. I tend to watch sports, but that wasn’t on the list.
I understand the appeal of Trump, but while he is a very good salesman and hits an awful lot of my hot buttons, I consider him to be slimy. on too many levels. His past record shows him to be neither conservative or libertarian, but authoritarian and opportunist. I voted for Ross Perot, but I can’t stomach Trump. So I probably either won’t vote, or I will go with whoever the Libertarians put up.
For the record, I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump wins. I think Hillary is a sitting duck..
I remember those Ross Perot informercials like it was yesterday! (I was 8). Man he came close and boy did those work.
I learned a lot voting for Perot. You don’t help your party by abandoning it in a futile act of protest. I won’t make that mistake again.
Both Bark and Mental will probably find that figure amusing…
I grew up in a small, rural town in North Georgia – although my parents were atypical for the area, as both hold terminal degrees, and my father is not local – so I can empathize with those who lost textile jobs that went to – yes! – Mexico.
After 18 years there, I went to college in another small town in Virginia.
54 for me. Though I’ve had way more hardship as an adult then as a child for sure.
Though born in Louisville, I landed in a small town called Augusta, Kansas shortly after my birth. It’s 30 minutes east of Wichita in south-central Kansas, boasts a population of around 9,000, and has an awesome Art Deco theater with neon lighting!
Mom and I lived in a trailer park the entire time I called Augusta home (around 19 years); Dad left the state some time after Mom divorced him eight months after I was born (20 September 1978, by the by). Mom mowed lawns at the local armory for a while, then worked at Dairy Queen for the remainder of her life in Augusta; she moved back to Christiansburg, Virginia in June of 2006.
I lettered in drama and choir, sold programs and was a part of the chain crew during home football games, spent most of my undergrad career at Wichita State University, then finished my degree at The Evergreen State College.
Word to the wise, don’t put your name and birthday on the internet. Alternately, let us know the name of your first pet and your favorite movie.
This interpretation seems to negate a bit of your assertion: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/
Tapping into the same source, your perspective from Kentucky might be more out of touch than the bubble test implies: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/normal-america-is-not-a-small-town-of-white-people/
Curious to see what you think of the second link especially. Personally, I’d have incorporated education level, median income and perhaps hourly vs. salaried income. Ok, income would take some substantial assumptions to correct for location, but the other two at least would improve the statement.
Scored 22, I think. Upper class with a West Pointer dad who watched Nascar with us.
538 has a particular ax to grind, and I’d suggest that it’s a remarkably progressive one.
The first article glosses over the fact that, thanks to the evisceration of the traditional working class, today’s “working class” American is a white or dingy-collar worker who has no upward mobility and no confidence that he’ll have a job next quarter. There are no more factory jobs so you can’t really refer to the people who used to fill factories as “working class” because they’re now welfare class.
The second article performs a backflip from the first and says, basically, that we need to treat the devastation of the traditional American lifestyle as a fait accompli and start focusing on people who will always be renters, always be on some sort of public assistance in one way or another, and who will form the undifferentiated prole-labor poor for the elites to use as they see fit. The choice of Tampa is telling — they’re using eleven million illegals as a lever to that heavy Hispanic concentration is the new normal.
The CT cities are odd. The cities are incredibly poor with middle class and wealthy suburbs surrounding them. You say yeah like most american cities, but it’s not the lines are much firmer. The way our zoning property tax and school structure works it’s hard to change it so even with gentrification in New Haven we are incredibly divided places, only by going wider to metro area does it relate to america as a whole. I think the only city I have been to as divided as the CT ones is Detroit, and even that has more gentrification efforts then Hartford. Also I don’t think Tampa is that Hispanic in comparison to south FL or even some of the cities in CT for that matter, just checked Tampa is 22% (same as the rest of FL) Hartford is 46%.
Like upstate NY, except with finance people that commute to NYC.
I’m not sure how much stock I put into the notion of the “traditional American lifestyle” since it’s only existed for a couple of generations. I think people need to accept that our best years were fueled by an incredibly unique set of circumstances which aligned after 1945 and are unlikely to ever repeat again. WWII was over, we had a ton of manufacturing might, and most importantly we were practically the only modern/western country which hadn’t had the shit bombed out of us. We had very little rebuilding to do unlike Western Europe.
While it’s true we had unique circumstances after the war that will not likely repeat, it does not mean the middle class should not be in a far batter place then they are.
Our GDP adjusted for inflation and population is larger then ever. We have the money there it just is going to the upper classes in a much more disproportional way then it did in post WWII America.
If the post war income distribution had stayed flat we would likely have the strongest wealthiest middle class in the world, instead we have a floundering middle class led by Greedy shortsighted Billionaires. There are many reasons for this most government can’t fix but it could at least try.
You are missing the GDP as a share of the rest of the world. In 1945, the US GDP represented nearly 50% of the entire GDP of the world, precisely for the reasons jz mentioned above. Our GDP may be larger than ever even when adjusted for inflation, but the rest of the world around us does too.
You can not underestimate the impact controlling half the world GDP would have on a society, and why we feel the relative loss of influence today.
True but if I recall we still control 22% of the world GDP. And the amount of money we roll thru every year would in theory allow for a similar standard of living as we had in the pre 1975 boom years if it was distributed in the same way as it was back then. It may not be the same jobs as you mentioned, but there should be more money going to the middle if the system weren’t so screwed up.
538 conclusions and representations of data very much come across with liberal bias, but they are not too kind to Sanders, for whatever it’s worth. Fair to watch for bias, but by no means a disqualifier. I don’t discredit Bark for having voted for Trump. With that in mind, 538 at least forms an argument around data. I’m not so much a fan of Bark trying to base an assertion on an (as Bark admits) unscientific questionnaire and some facebook anecdotes, but it’s your blog.
I’d say that there are fewer factory jobs, not no more. BLS shows ~12 million jobs with a population of 320 million today vs around 17 million out of a population of 230 million at their peak in 1980. So, fractionally, we have 50% as many manufacturing jobs as we did during that peak. Pretty bad. I’m sure there’s plenty of policy to blame. But, did robotics become cheaper during that period? Did the Big Three cut out wasteful processes following the slump in 2008? I also don’t think companies like Ford could sell products like the somewhat reliable and affordable Powerstroke if it were made in the US. Not without automating the majority of the line. The loss of manufacturing jobs are a shame, but how exactly does Trump address it?
I think your inference on the second article is further than I’d take it. “Deserving of public attention and investment” likely means government assistance, but requiring businesses to manufacture goods in the US where it is less profitable is, in some sense, converting potential profits into US jobs. But it keeps people busy, and proud, and motivated – I get that. A proud factory worker in the US is becoming a less common sight these days.
With regards to the 11 million illegal immigrants, it doesn’t change the math a whole lot. Exclude them and the country is still very Hispanic (50 million latino/Hispanic citizens). The states on the bottom of the list would still be on the bottom, though the top would shift. I do agree that poor laborers are taken advantage of by the elites, and that they enact policy to that effect.
As for Nate Silver being wrong, that doesn’t apply to the specific articles that I shared, but he really missed that mark on that. His model, and most real political scientists’ models weren’t calibrated for a Trump character. Bad initial assumptions coupled with Trump essentially being out of sample for the model.
Nate Silver had been wrong about everything Trump so far. I wouldn’t put too much stock in his other Trump thinkpieces.
Yep. I believe he rated Trump’s chances of winning the nomination at five percent.
I get 43. But I still think Trump is an enormous clown. He’s a master marketer who knows how to play an audience, and he’s doing a masterful job. Most of the shit he says he’ll do as president are things he cannot possibly do. Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it? notgonnahappen.com, and the very notion that anyone even takes him seriously on that is worrisome.
So my problem is not that people are receptive to a message like his. Hell, I wish we could keep/return more manufacturing here; Last weekend I was buying some garden equipment and paid 3x more for a garden hose which was made in the US instead of the Chinese one next to it.
My problem is that Trump is nothing but a loud vessel of empty promises. He won’t be able to do anything he says he wants to do, and no one is seeing through that. His proposed punitive taxation of Ford for building cars in Mexico seems to be (on the surface) a clear bill of attainder which would get thrown out in the first court challenge.
So like I said before, I’m going to sit this one out. Kasich was the only guy I would even have considered voting, but IMO now that Trump seems to be the presumptive candidate, as far as I can see Billary might as well get started on moving their shit back into the White House.
I agree on Trump I don’t think I could vote for him to unrealistic and frankly annoying. I voted for Bernie (had to change my reg from independent to Dem to do it gotta remember to change that back). I don’t agree with everything Bernie says, but I feel and have always felt even when I tended to vote for fiscal conservatives in the early 2000’s that we need single payer health care so for that and the failing middle class I voted for Bernie.
Sure you can build the wall and make Mexico pay for it. Building a wall is hardly a difficult or especially expensive task. Mexico will pay for it with either extra tariffs or with-holding of aid. They need us more than we need them. As Trump meant in his announcement Mexico does not send us their best and brighest.
67. I live in a small town in Indiana that happens to be adjacent to a large lake and a few giant steel mills. My area lives and dies on those steel mills. I completely understand Trump’s appeal to all of the blue-collar workers.
I was lucky enough to avoid the steel mills and I like Trump for a different reason: he is a Republican who isn’t a part of the religious right.
57. Might have been higher if he’d put Texas Roadhouse on the chain restaurant list.
61. Mine would have been too. I think Texas Roadhouse has a more diverse cross-section of customers than Outback.
I’m always disappointed when I go to Texas, because I’m hoping that particular restaurant is simply named “RoadHouse”.
Swayze Be With You
Of chains, I really like Texas Roadhouse. They have done a great job of creating a very strong corporate culture. I have spoken with several of their management folks and they stay at Texas Roadhouse because of the leeway they are given to keep customers happy.
45. I assumed it would be lower. But my family is well educated with advanced degrees and good jobs . Me not so much.
I think Bark may take the Reagan thing a bit far. Most Trump supporters I know don’t think that highly of Reagan either, they just know the middle class and working class have been screwed for a few decades now. In fact a few of my conservative Trump supporting friends have admitted Reagan is held up much higher then he should be when many of his policies were the start of the fall of the middle class.
I also don’t think most Trump voters want a return to financial conservatism either. They want a protectionist government with a large military that puts the middle class above all other groups. They really don’t care if they tax the hell out of the rich in fact some might be happy with it (like trumps call, for far higher taxes on hedge funds and other financial workers). It also shows why people like the Koch brothers and other wealthy activists may well put some of their money behind Clinton because they are pretty sure the current structure is safe with her.
In the end this is hopefully the new rise of the middle and lower middle income people to power. Those voting for Trump and Sanders are both voting to tell the rest of US politics that they need their voices heard and they better start making life better for the middle class or there will be problems. This will likely mean some very un-conservative finical ideas will become the law. Deregulating markets has been good for our GDP but not for the people doing the work. I expect to see some stiff regulations on offshoring immigration corporate tax etc.
Also after this election it will be interesting to see if economics will keep pushing the middle class into a more cohesive voting group instead of letting wedge issues break them apart. There are some signs this is happening as wedge issue should have prevented Trump from winning the nomination and that obviously did not happen.
Exactly. Trump exposed what passed for “Republican orthodoxy” for the past 20-30 years. Which Rubio espoused as an empty suit who had lines fed to him. That orthodoxy said that inheritance tax should be eliminated, capital gains should be taxed less than earned income, preserving the 1% if the main aim of society, gut social security even though it has lifted millions out of poverty. Companies should be allowed to move, gain tax breaks and screw communities and workers with no consequences.
Exactly If you look at all Trumps statements from the last 35 years of public life it becomes pretty obvious he is not going to be Reagan conservative in any way shape or form.
What do you get if you look at Hillary’s statements over the same timeframe?
Mostly moderate democratic party talking points with the occasional pull to the left usually caused by an election. I’m not saying her policies will bring on anything better in the economy but they are pretty well known, she mostly wants to keep things as they are. Oddly some of her talking points on economics mirror trumps like taking away the carried interest exemption.
Sorry for the double post hit reply on my email and it dropped it at the bottom.
I got 35, and I fit this description perfectly: “11–80: A first-generation upper-middle-class person with middle-class parents. Typical: 33.” I doubt my actual responses were typical of such people, though. I’ve held a lot of blue-collar and menial jobs in my life, but I pay zero attention to pop culture.
There are two problems with Trump. And they’re going to sink him even if Hillary runs her usual bad campaign (seriously… how can someone who is always well-prepared be such a bad campaigner?).
The first is the bigotry, which should be disqualifying even for someone who’s 100 percent in agreement with the rest of his program. Calling what he does “bigotry” isn’t a matter of hyperventilating over nothing. It’s a straightforward observation based on his own statements. Every time he says anything about any group other than white males, it comes across as obviously ignorant, ill-informed, and fearful. And the electorate now is mostly not white males.
The second is that he plainly has no ability to implement a program. Even if you like what he’s peddling, there is no way he can get any of it done. The most essential skill a president has is the ability to make the bureaucracy, which is made up of tens of thousands of people all with their own agendas and ideas, do what you want. Even qualified presidents take years to get their heads around this — Ike, Reagan, Clinton, W, and Obama were all more effective in their second terms than their first, and Nixon would have been as well had he not disqualified himself. Trump has never shown the slightest skill or interest in this respect, and has less experience in it than literally any previous president (he would be the first one without either government or military experience). Both the executive branch and Congress would chew him up and spit him out, no matter how many angry speeches he gave. He’s put his finger on real issues, but he’s about the worst possible person to address them.
He would probably hire some good people. Also he could certainly change immigration rules and veto any amnesty. He could start the process to reinterpet the 14th Amendment and get rid of anchor babies.
43 points, but I’m Canadian and several of the questions didn’t apply.
My (single) mom worked two jobs to support us, and I spent two years of my adulthood on social assistance here in some of our least affluent neighborhoods, with no wealthy family members around. It feels like another life at this point.
Again, non-US disclaimer: I don’t question, at all, the populist uprising against the US political system with both trump and, on the other extreme, Bernie sanders. From my disconnected view, it appears to have been a long time coming.
We have literally the opposite thing happening here – after nearly w decade of minirity conservative governance, we have a majority populist, well-regarded leader for once.
Also Canadian. I got a 53, my brother got a 33. We had the same upbringing but took remarkably different life paths (perhaps a bit like Jack and Bark). I’d attribute the higher score in part to the fact that I’ve been to 35 of the 50 states, which gives me a “thinner bubble” than many of my contemporaries.
You’ve been to 51…that’d be Canada :D…..Man do people in Canada not laugh when you make a joke similar to that. The looks you get are priceless.
By most standards I would be considered very “privileged” and I could have answered either way on Jimmie Johnson or Branson, but chose what I think was the more living in a bubble answer. I would have been killed on the TV shows if not for my wife’s terrible sitcom and drama taste, and only owning one television. I think I deserve the “letter in HS” points because I didn’t letter on account of working after school each day since I got my working papers. Although it was in a library so that is pretty nerdy.
I feel a little vindicated in my choices and life helping to prepare me to be a “competent judge” in the John Stuart Mill sense. It was probably the biggest concept I took from the entirety of my education, although I have bent it to my own definition.
I am torn on the first part about blue collar, but my father wasn’t promoted into “management” at the police dept until I was in HS. However it was on long island so the payscale even before that would be hard to call “blue collar” in the other parts of the country I have lived in.
I am almost alone among my peers in my support of Trump. If you ask my if I am a free trade supporter I would say yes, but in the last few years I have become of the mind that our current policies are not free trade, but trade designed to increase the wealth of those who benefit from investments in foreign trade, and shift capital to underdeveloped countries so as to improve their lot, and possibly create a larger market on the whole. Rising tide lifts all boats and all that. In the past I would advance and defend that argument.
I could not argue that those policies are in the best interest of most Americans given what I have experienced over the last 10 years. I also don’t think it is “free trade” if we handicap our manufacturing sector with stringent environmental, safety and compensation standards.
At the same time I am very much in favor of those standards. However I don’t think a former factory worker here should be forced to wait for some invisible hand in the underdeveloped world to impose and enforce similar regulation when their market calls for it.
I would support a policy of free trade among partners who have, and demonstrably enforce, a similar standard to us on those issues, for goods for both domestic and foreign consumption. I would impose trade penalties to offset the advantages that those who don’t pay the hidden costs of those ill’s upfront.
This would still preserve any “natural” advantages one location has over another, but remove a distortion.
It would be tricky on the other end, a first world trade partner of ours could do the same too us if they don’t like our standards, and could be a bad policy if that leads to too many trade barriers based on an inability to say what is enough. The EU could say our co2 policy is too lax and impose barrier based on that, or becuz coal sux so go suck it. I recognize the pandora’s box on trade agreements such a policy could open.
Weighed against arguing to a large number of american’s that its more important to have cheap t shirts and shiny disposable electronics at a price that they can lease them for than it is for them to have steady manufacturing jobs is not something I am prepared to do anymore.
26 points, yet I totally “get” Trump and his appeal to independents, blue collar workers, Reagan Democrats, etc., and have predicted how underestimated his appeal would be & how the Establishment would lose to his ability to cultivate a populist movement consisting of the aforementioned groups + those who previously gave up on the political process back in early March of this year (when I predicted that, despite the conventional wisdom to the contrary, he’d obtain the GOP nomination).
p.s. – Whether Trump or another Clinton, it’s bread & circus as the institutional rot and political/regulatory capture by Big Finance/Big Healthcare/Big Defense Contractors/Big Agri/Big etc is too deep.
“Whether Trump or another Clinton, it’s bread & circus as the institutional rot and political/regulatory capture by Big Finance/Big Healthcare/Big Defense Contractors/Big Agri/Big etc is too deep”
Agreed completely. Congress is bought and paid-for, and will vote in favor of its owners and its own entrenched interests. And then we have the vast legions of administrative agencies, which are nominally under the control of the executive but are basically shadow governments. Maybe Trump is one hell of a manager and can reel in these agencies; that’s not exactly a sexy topic for the press to explore in detail.
68. Interesting questions on this. You could also ask – ‘have you ever been to a swap meet?’ ‘have you ever pawned anything?’
You should come up with an automotive elitism/bubble test. ‘have you ever purchased a ‘parts’ car’ etc…
59 here and it fits more or less with Charles Murray’s stratification even though my situation isn’t listed. I’d consider myself first generation upper-middle class with working class parents not middle class parents. I suppose given my profession, many would still consider middle-class despite what my gross income indicates.
I got a 41, the edge of the upper middle class but I think it says that I’m more insulated from the middle class than I really am. One grandfather was a mailman, the other a junkman. My father, o’b’m’, was a veterinarian, the first member of his family to go to college. I lost points because I went to a “private” school, i.e. a Jewish parochial school, and due to the fact that I keep a kosher diet, I don’t eat at any of those restaurants.
I have worked in a factory and dug ditches for a living. I wore a uniform on the job. I never lettered in sports because I’m 5’6 and have stubby legs. I did play organized baseball as a teenager, but I guess that doesn’t count.
I wasn’t sure about the percentage of my immediate neighbors who have college degrees. The neighborhood is maybe 60% orthodox Jews, many of whom don’t go to college after yeshiva or girls’ seminary.
I don’t know about the white working class, but at least half of my embroidery customers are black working class who belong to motorcycle and car clubs.
No that’s a question to add to Prof. Murray’s questionaire: Do you know anyone in a three-patch motorcycle club? Also, the lettering in sports should be modified to include participating in organized non-school related sports, like playing on a travel hockey or soccer team.
As far as Donald Trump is concerned, I doubt the man has any principles beyond himself, and I doubt he could pass a civics test from when I was in junior high. I am willing to bet that the sunglasses-wearing gap-toothed Trump supporter in Indiana that Ted Cruz “debated” the other day (who asked Cruz what he’s ever done for the 2nd Amendment, not knowing that Cruz has won 2nd Amendment cases at the SCOTUS) is more indicative of Trump supporters than the brothers Baruth. Trump has figured out a way to tap into center-right low information voters.
I still haven’t decided if I’m going to vote for Trump or not. The current administration is lawless, the regulatory leviathan is out of control. We have Democratic state attorney generals violating RICO statutes in conspiring with environmental groups to suppress the free speech of corporations and free market think tanks. We have the Dept of Justice and Dept of Education intimidating colleges into depriving men of due process, without any basis in law.
Hillary will only make it worse, and likely get to pick a couple of judges for the Supreme Court.
Ronnie asks; ” Do you know anyone in a three-patch motorcycle club”
If the internet count’s, you do.
Got a 52 on the test. Pop was a tool and die maker so slightly upper middle class, I have gone from upper middle to poverty level, back to upper middle a couple times. Currently comfortable and ready to retire.
Still unsure about Trump, but think he is better than the alternative. Might vote, might not. Hate to have to vote for the lesser of 2 evils.
25. Voted/Voting for Trump.
A acquaintance of mine is involved in the local Republican Party and put it this way, and I paraphrase: “The Republican Party was due for an enema, but didn’t get to choose who it would be.”
“Maybe Trump is one hell of a manager and can reel in these agencies; that’s not exactly a sexy topic for the press to explore in detail.”
Maybe, but discussions of how “Trump University” and his property interests have been handled do not tend to lean towards such a thing as being likely.
Then again, maybe he just has useless peons who have caused the issues there. Who knows.
Damn, I got a 28. I grew up poor in a very diverse and high crime Northeast city, but apparently I’ve turned myself into some sort of elitist a-hole. Guess I need to watch more movies and TV. Go Trump!
I snagged a 38. Grew up poor in a small VT Farming town with a mother who came from Southern Royalty with a degree from an elite east coast school. She did the super hippy thing and moved to India for 15 years and had me and my sisters. Left my biological father and took my Turkish step father back to VT into a house that was given to us by my grandparents. Mother and Stepfather proceeded to make every bad financial decision possible leaving us on Public Assistance more often than not. I spent most of my time hanging out with my Dairy Farmer neighbors but also had friends in the upper crust. I paid my own fare through college and landed a pretty great job. Not sure why I’m giving you my full bio, just saying that I can relate to the Trump supporters but I personally lean towards Bernie. Like you, sometimes I can come off as a total dirtbag, while other times people think of me as a condescending prick.
Form for commenting on this thread:
My life story
I understand the appeal of Trump but: (reason why I think I’m a better person than a Trump supporter)
Yes, it’s kind of humorous watching the desire to humblebrag about one’s working man origins collide with the elite need to be superior to the rubes in flyover country. Yes, those idiots are being suckered in by a bigot and con-man, but I understand how he’s fooling them.
Kevin gets it. Thank you.
What’s lame, that there’s a structured response, that people are giving details of their life story, that people think they are better people than trump supporters, or are you declaring for yourself?
Pfft, I like the format.
Score and life story give insight to the effectiveness of the quiz, as well as the quiz itself causing self examination of ones personal narrative. It also puts into perspective the points of view from previous comments, at least in regard to frequent commentors.
Pretty high quality stuff for the internet. Could use more dick jokes though.
What the hell does it all mean ? .
What does 67 mean? Apologies to George Carlin, ‘You do me and I’ll owe you two’.
There’s Harry’s dick joke.
Still waiting to see if I’m the only one who went in reverse from middle class/upper middle class (growing up) to working class/lower middle class. Part of it was choices (not going to a real college etc) but even in my 15 years of being in the full time workforce it seems a lot harder to move ahead then when I started, when based on additional training and experience it should be getting easier (at least that’s what they told us). Wage growth in my industry has been non-existent to negative for 7 years now.
I know a lot of friends who will never come close to their parents’ slightly upper middle class lives.
I’m a 54. Last of Gen X or first of Millenials. Third generation of college grad (yes, even both grandmothers had bachelor degrees in hand before Pearl Harbor). Went to a public school where whites were a minority, 20% of students didn’t speak English, and >60% were on free lunch (it had an excellent international baccalaureate program). Ive held jobs that involve cleaning shit, vomit, and anything else a body can leak from floors, walls, me, and others and working in the front office of a UAW factory.
Now my wife and I both have terminal degrees in our field, shuffle lots of paper, provide our boys with a nice life, and contribute to income stratification since professionals no longer marry outside their peer group.
I am very cognizant to keep Herman Blume’s words in mind as a parent.
‘Now, for some of you it doesn’t matter. You were born rich and you’re going to stay rich. But here’s my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can’t buy backbone. Don’t let them forget it.’
I just think it’s funny that Jack mentioned “fiscal conservative” and Regan in the same sentence.
Remember Carter? Mondale? 🙂
I wasn`t around at the time but weren`t deficits smaller under Carter than Reagan?
part of me wonders how much overlap there would be of a two-circle Venn diagram, one circle “Donald Trump Supporters” and the other “People who will actually choose and pay for US-made products.”
I don’t think there’s much.
Hey Jack, haven’t taken the test yet, but i am also an oddball. Dad grew up poor, but became rich and Republican. Mom’s family was college educated East coast Unitarians. We lived rich until dad left mom when I was 12, at which point life changed. I went to college, but after school, worked blue collar jobs. So, i tend to piss of Liberals with my working class views, and piss of Conservatives with my lib social ideals. As Nelson said, “Can’t please everyone… so ya gotta please yourself.”
meant to say “piss off”
I wrote this one. 🙂
Scored an 83. Not sure how that is possible. 44 years old, grew up with just my dad working in rural Ohio in a factory, town of 700 or so. Mom got a job when I was early teens. Became a latchkey kid, which was fine by me. Got the hell out of there after High School and joined the Navy. Haven’t been back other than to visit.
Now I go to a different factory every day to resolve whatever issues they are having, or new installs, or training, or whatever. I don’t think this particular applies to me in the way that it was meant.
I avoid political discussion to a point. I have no desire to change your mindset, and no you aren’t going to change mine. I don’t really watch any mainstream TV, or watch any movies. IIRC, I only checked 1 thing on each of the TV and Movies list. To me that would imply that I am more insulated from modern culture by choice. I guess I don’t understand the analytics behind the poll.
You don’t recognize the bubble because you don’t live in it. The people who live in the bubble tend to be college-educated coastal elites who associate only with other people like themselves.
They’re unlikely to have ever really spent any time with a person like yourself, who served in the forces and has experience on a factory floor. It isn’t just about the popular TV and movies list, though that is one marker of their elite tastes – conspicuously avoiding the low-brow entertainment, that is.
“I avoid political discussion to a point. I have no desire to change your mindset, and no you aren’t going to change mine.”
and that’s the problem. we all act like if you disagree with my political beliefs, that means you are denigrating me as a person. differences in opinion are received as judgements of character. we want the news to tell us that what we believe is right, not to tell us what is actually going on.
56. Interesting test. 2 degrees, Canadian, do not own a TV but in a Union and put myself through school in blue collar jobs. Right in the middle makes sense. I understand the dissatisfaction in the US and here as I rarely like politicians of any stripe. Like all of us smug northern neighbours I have to say “300 Million citizens and Trump or Clinton? Surely your great nation can do better than that”
I scored a 33. I was born & raised in the suburbs of Cincinnati. My dad was a CPA and the son of a salesman. My mom was the daughter of a hardscrabble tobacco farmer. I went to Catholic grade school and Catholic prep school for high school and got my bachelor’s from the University of Cincinnati. I was a member of UAW local 412, unit 36 for two years while I worked for Chrysler (customer relations) in Detroit. For the past 20 years, I have worked as a technical training instructor for 3 different automakers. I teach the hard-working guys (there are very few women in the job) who work at dealerships fixing cars. This included 12 years in the Western Minneapolis suburbs teaching Chrysler techs, which also involved frequent travel in the Dakotas, Northern Minnesota and Northern Iowa. For over 8 years I have been teaching techs in Southern California, so I guess that makes me one of those “coastal elites” now. Whatever. I was living in Minnesota when Jesse Ventura was elected governor, so the Trump phenomenon seems familiar. I understand why Trump has so much support, but I can’t get past the fact that the guy is just an insufferable dick of a person and a blowhard to boot. I get it, though: his supporters think that he can get things done and might just enjoy his bluster.
“I can’t get past the fact that the guy is just an insufferable dick of a person and a blowhard to boot.”
I think the only person on either side of the primaries who wasn’t a total piece of shit by some measure of humanity was Ben Carson, but he got Herman Cained by a media that magically discovers every racist trick in the book when the Negro in question is wearing a red tie.
I think a huge story missed in the Republican primary by the liberal media is how Cruz somehow managed to be even more insufferable than Trump.
Yeah Cruz is even a bigger dick then Trump I’m pretty sure that’s why his poll numbers dropped in the last few primaries.
Carson didn’t need racist treatment to suffer in the media. His kooky, conspiracy-world ideas and complete lack of preparation did that by themselves.
I agree with you that this year’s field is lacking in nice people, but I’d still trust any one of them on either side more than Trump, except possibly Cruz.
I’ll remind you that the last Presidential candidate to use the word “conspiracy” seriously was Mrs. Clinton.
And how prepared has she looked this year? No better than Carson.
So why is Carson a kook and Mrs. Clinton our next President?
If you think Clinton looks no more prepared than Carson, either you’re more ignorant than I think you are or you’re living in an alternate universe.
Agree with them or not, her positions are carefully developed, usually realistic, and reflect a lot of experience. His were drawn up on the back of a napkin, loosely based on whatever John Birch crap he happened to read that morning. I mean, this is a guy who thinks Planned Parenthood is driven by eugenics and who thinks “immoral lifestyles” are the primary source of our economic decline.
Planned Parenthood is driven by eugenics. Have you not read Sanger’s own comments on the matter?
Dude, not even NPR was able to completely whitewash the fact that Planned Parenthood has its roots in eugenics:
If you are willing to give Sanger and Planned Parenthood a pass, you also have to be willing to accept that David Duke is a mainstream politician.
On the other side of the coin, Breitbart has data to support his “black genocide” contention:
And here’s the killshot: Hillary slept through briefings, is “often confused” according to Huma:
A few points:
a) Sanger has been dead for 50 years and not in charge of PP for 60. Holding the current organization responsible for her views is just like holding today’s Republicans responsible for Strom Thurmond’s views on civil rights.
b) David Duke wholeheartedly approves of Trump’s views on immigration and race. That should tell you something about Trump and whether he should get credit for being “mainstream.”
c) If you rely on Breitbart to interpret data for you, no wonder you’re so confused. When I see their map, what occurs to me is “Planned Parenthood serves low-income areas.” Imagine that… low-income people are the ones who have the most use for low-cost birth control and, yes, abortions outside of expensive private doctors’ offices.
d) How about that? Judicial Watch managed to find the most unflattering material to Hillary in several years’ worth of state emails! Truly amazing reporting. If you have any doubt about her ability to prepare, watch her testimony before the Benghazi committee again.
Did Strom Thurmond found the Republican Party?
a) The media DOES continue to present Republicans as racist scumbags. So yes, Sanger’s decision process behind PP should continue to be worthy of discussion.
b) Trump’s views on immigration can be summed up in one sentence: he wants to enforce United States Law. Period point blank. If you have a problem with his views on immigration, you actually have a problem with US law. Furthermore, since Trump is running as pretty much a single-issue candidate, it’s safe to say that the majority of Americans share his views on immigration. Otherwise he wouldn’t have won more primaries than any other candidate on either side of the aisle.
c) Sure. And poor people have the most use for liquor! And for cigarettes! And for guns! And for check cashing! And subprime loans! And title pawn! Christ Almighty, it looks like all of these wonderful people are actually part of a coalition with PP to SERVE THE POOR! What was I thinking?
d) I’ve watched it. She comes off as somebody who doesn’t give a shit about the death of American citizens. If that’s her at her best, then I don’t want to see her at her worst. I’ll further remind you that the media portrayed Reagan as a confused, napping nitwit for years on no more evidence than what I’ve presented.
a) “They’re unfair to me, so I get to be unfair back!” (Except for those few Republicans, like Donald “I won’t rent to blacks” Trump, who actually are racist scumbags.)
b) It’s a lot more complicated than that and you know it.
If the law truly required what Trump is proposing, then the Republican Congress would also be complicit in violating it. The Republican Congress hasn’t allocated (and won’t allocate under Trump) even a tiny fraction of the enormous funds necessary to deport everyone in the country illegally. But law enforcement just doesn’t work that way. Every law enforcement function at every level has a limited budget and has to decide how to prioritize the use of that budget. All the outrage over Obama’s executive orders is really about the executive branch changing its priorities with respect to how it uses money Congress budgeted. Under Obama more of the budget (which hasn’t changed significantly) is being used to deport felons and monitor employer compliance, and less of it is being used to deport people that (depending on your perspective) are lower risk or are in favored groups. Whether the change is consistent with existing law or goes too far is a question the courts are considering now. The conservative 5th Circuit doesn’t think so, and blocked Obama’s order, but they know the Supreme Court will decide in the end.
c) Are you really comparing an association of donor-supported nonprofits with pawn shops and shady liquor stores? They don’t profit from providing more pills (or abortions). They especially don’t profit from providing doctor exams, which is most of their activity.
d) If that’s how you feel, that’s fine. I don’t think she came across that way at all. But she didn’t get any facts wrong (and only rarely does), despite 11 hours of straight interrogation. Contrast that with Donald “unemployment is 42%” Trump.
It’s almost amusing the way people on the left, who by and large think their political ideology makes them morally superior, will bend over backwards to defend someone who is quite possibly the most corrupt politician who has held high national office since Spiro Agnew.
Tell us how the Clinton Foundation isn’t all about influence peddling? No doubt Chelsea Clinton’s $65,000 speaking fee is because she’s such an outstanding public speaker. Of course that’s mere financial corruption. The folks who praise her Benghazi hearing appearance do so over the graves of four Americans.
Man, I wish you’d just be honest and admit it’s about will to power.
The test does weight military service heavily, I took the test again except answered in the negative on military service/wearing a uniform, also I could only ID 4 of the 5 ranks as I have no idea what enlisted chieftechnicalairsergeant air force rank that was without looking it up.
57 instead of 72 based on that alone.
I think it is accurate as it is darn near impossible to both serve with the diverse group of people I encountered and remain in a bubble about what large amounts of the country is like.
My test score fairly accurately reflects me, which is quite odd given that I do not even live in the US. That said, I really am not convinced by the test’s underlying premise. It’s assumptions about the typical American seem doubtful to me. Basically, it seems you score low if you’re from the south or midwest, have served in the military and grew up or live in a small town.
Anyways, here is a totally different explanation of Trump’s success, curtesy of Bill James via Joe Posnanski that I found Interesting: http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/donald-trump-bill-james-2001/
I don’t know Carson said some pretty bizarre things (lots of references to Nazi Germany) during the campaign he seems somewhat disconnected from reality. Plus he seemed to not understand much about how our government works.
53 for me.
Maybe I missed it, but I feel there should have been a question about owning, shooting, or handling guns.
I’m not sure I can trust Trump (particularly on guns), but, as the son of a retired Air Force NCO who never could seem to find anything other than dead end work in south Georgia after he got out of the service, I totally get the movement, the sentiment, and the support. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve referenced the ’92 election in the past several months, and, in my personal estimation, what’s happened thus far in 2016 has to be, in some way, the chickens of 1992 coming home to roost.
Also, notwithstanding the fact that both my wife and I lettered in something when we were in high school, I’m not sure I agree that sports and character have as strong a correlation as you’re suggesting. In my experience going to a high school and college with a very prominent football program, most of the male athletes were really only interested in doing the bare minimum to get by and generally acted with a great sense of entitlement. I’m not trying to say sports are bad, but I do think that the way we’ve emphasized them, particularly with the promise of the big pay out for the lucky few, tends to make some student-athletes think they only have to care about the sport, especially if it’s one of the big three or four. I think that attitude is partially driven by the fact that, due to the economic doldrums we’re in, a lot of folks think that a child’s success in sports is something akin to winning the lottery.
I think that character is created in true team environments. Maybe it’s different in kids today, but I found out a lot about what I was made of when I was practicing football in fifteen degree temps, or running sprints in thunderstorms.
All I can think about is the Elvis Costello line:
“I used to be disgusted / now I try to be amused”
Sorry, that was meant to be a general reply, not directly to your comment.
I had a chance to see Elvis Costello for free when he opened up for Steely Dan last summer. A friend won tickets. I wouldn’t go in till after Costello’s set was over. I have no desire to be entertained by someone who has ill will towards me.
Steely Dan was terrific. I love jams but it was a treat to see a large, well-rehearsed band playing mostly charted music. I’d like to know whatever strain Walter was smoking that night.
The gun question is a good one – surprised it’s not in there.
My score was a 58. Grew up one way, worked my way (with some luck, obv.) into another. Nothing any President does is very likely to put food on my table, but Bernie Sanders might take some off. I’m in at least two of the groups that Trump has made clear he wants dead or deported, and so are my child and baby momma, so…
I liked car world better when we didn’t talk about politics, although I recognize we’re at a national moment where it’s impossible to go back to that. When I look under the hood of a car I see problems that can be solved in a direct fashion.
I am sad to see the Sanger conversation come up on these pages once again. Starting with Sanger and finishing with either trump or cruz indicates that the author is so divorced from reality as to be irretrievable.
I’d like a Liberalspeak to English translation, s’il vous plait.
I hope so, man.
Reality is a drag.
But the discussion at hand here has nothing to do with Trump or Cruz. The discussion is: “Does thinking that Planned Parenthood targets blacks with its services make Ben Carson a nutjob?” There’s plenty of evidence that PP was founded on the principles of eugenics. Meanwhile, PP themselves say that “SIXTY PERCENT OF OUR CLINICS ARE IN MAJORITY WHITE NEIGHBORHOODS”, which means that forty percent of them are not. Further evidence suggests that Black women account for one in three abortions despite the fact that they only account for 12% of the population.
So no, Ben Carson is not a crazy person. The evidence supporting his assertion is FAR better than anything Black Lives Matter has brought forth. Are THEY nutjobs?
Got a 57, I am a 1.5 generation immigrant. I like long walks on the beach and occasionally drink coffee from Starbucks
I get why people get Trump. I get that he’s obviously full of shit and people will believe anything they hear if they like the sound of it.
I’M GONNA MAKE APPLE AND FORD BUILD THEIR PRODUCTS IN AMERICA!
>Doesn’t make his own goods in America
I’m a Canadian but did the quiz anyway. Scored a 32. I’m not sure about the relevance. I’m sure I’d have scored much higher if they included MMA in the questions!
As a Canadian, I’d like to see Trump win because I think it will be more entertaining than any other option, which is about all I can hope for anymore. Though I am still hoping to experience some huge earth-shaking event before I die. Alien invasion, nuclear war, huge meteor impact, Godzilla, whatever.
I’m surprised that an engineer is considered a “high-prestige profession” down there. Up here, it’s what the kids who are good at math and physics get suckered into pursuing because they didn’t have the social connections or guidance to figure out how much more easily and quickly you could make money doing other equally unpleasant things.
When I was down in Houston doing some training for a directional drilling company, I recall one of the other students being surprised that someone with an engineering degree would do that job. It was strange to hear that perspective, as most of my friends with engineering degrees do oilfield work that someone could do with a high school diploma, or less, after a couple years of rig experience. But they were making about half as much as us doing directional drilling work down there, while college graduates apparently tended to be paid well enough to make it worthwhile to work in an office instead. Up here, your engineering degree is practically worthless for at least five years after you graduate, until you get your P.Eng. Then, you’d be lucky to make as much as the power “engineers” and tradesmen who have been making six figures since they were 20.
I was an honor student with a couple years of solid engineering internship experience, so I snagged what seemed like one of the more desirable job postings out of university. But after a couple years of being one of the lowest paid people in my industry (power generation), with no hope of matching the pay of the tradesmen that I worked around for at least another decade, while seeing my oilfield buddies making four times what I was, and not enjoying my somewhat cushy life anyway, I made the switch. It’s not like any of the senior engineers I worked with ever seemed terribly happy with their career paths. Even during the first year of my internship, the engineer I worked under was regularly telling me that he should have done something else.
It’s hard to regret getting my degree though, as I think I was destined to crash and burn regardless of my path, and it’s hard to imagine another place that I could meet so many like-minded individuals. I had enough fun and social experience growing up, but I always felt like a bit of an outsider. I never thought I’d end up with so many close friends.
“I think I was destined to crash and burn regardless of my path, ”
The title of my autobiography, right there.
“The title of my autobiography, right there.”
I hope you write one someday.
I’ll just add that I wasn’t suggesting that Trump as president would be a disaster scenario. I actually prefer the direction that Trump is suggesting. But I see western politics as Kang-Kodos situations. No matter who gets in, it will still be an authoritarian government that caters to the elites.
There seems to be many more PE’s in Canada then here based on per capita. Most of the engineers here never get it unless they are a civil or mechanical engineer, I know of very few electrical or chemical PE’s. Engineering is well respected in the US and it pays OK but not as well as it used to, other then some guys working for tech companies. Of course that’s true of most things out side of software and finance in the US, they just don’t pay what they used too. My neighbor is an Electrician he gets paid almost the same as he did back in 2000. In 2000 that was a very good income now not so much.
“I think I was destined to crash and burn regardless of my path, ”
‘The title of my autobiography, right there.’
Yeah but , it’s what you do after that that is important , right ? .
Where you’re from in interesting , but nothing more ~ where you go id the important thing in life .
You’re a wise man, Nate.
38. Second generation in my family to go to college. Grew up comfortably middle-class in smalltown SC, following sportscar racing and F1 rather than NASCAR, lettering in soccer and tennis instead of football or baseball. “Modern Family” saved my bacon on the TV question, and Waffle House is the only chain on the list that I’ve visited in years.
Apolitical and quite disgusted with the present system. Both parties are beholden to their own interests and nothing else. Clinton’s supporters seem to be overlooking how & why Obama destroyed her in the DNC primaries 8 years ago, while Trump’s supporters seem to be pissed off in general, but unsure how to make an impact, other than dropping a 3-stage-comb-over grenade into the ballot box.
I was raised in a strong GOP Presbyterian household and by early adulthood had decided that neither of these belief systems was for me. But where I break with modern liberal progressives: I don’t hate on Christians or Republicans. I don’t think I’m better than them. I don’t think everyone who supports Trump is a drooling idiot, and I’ll sure take the time I’ve spent in the deep south and midwest over the 5 years I lived in the DC area. The people are indeed different out here, and it’s not in a bad way.
To your point in the last paragraph, I know quite a few people who would be very, very proud to obtain a low score on this test. In many of the rank and file members of the educated and professional classes, the utter contempt for the poor, rural and/or working class, especially if you throw Christianity into the mix, it utterly astounding, embarrassing, and shows an ironic degree of ignorance.
Bark, curious on your thoughts on the new “Clinton Republicans” since you mentioned Reagan Democrats. There seems to be hundreds of former campaign officials and even former GOP cabinet members coming out telling the GOP establishment to vote for Hillarythis week. This was actually hinted at back at the start of the primaries by several insiders saying if Trump or Cruz were nominated they would either back Hillary or a third party.
While I’m not a Big fan of Hillary, it seems she has the backing of the GOP establishment the Democrat establishment, the poor, minorities, and a few others. While I think there is a growing number of discontented Americans who want to throw down (more GOP then democrats but I think that is changing) I think for this cycle Clinton has too many people on her side to lose. It will be interesting to see how many Sanders supporters split for Trump that’s the real unknown.
I don’t think Hillary can turn any red states blue, but I think Trump turn the rust belt red.
Mostly moderate democratic party talking points with the occasional pull to the left usually caused by an election. I’m not saying here policies will bring on anything better in the economy but they are pretty well known, she mostly wants to keep things as they are.
If you count all of the flip flops Hilldawg has done (Iraq, coal, gay marriage, etc.) she makes the Donald seem like a rock of consistency.
Oh I agree one of the reasons I haven’t voted for her in the past 2 primaries. The Iraq thing in particular annoys me. I’m not sure on the coal thing as I live in the northeast so coal news doesn’t get followed much up here like it does in KY WV and PA (Utah for that matter as well) Gay marriage is why I said Democratic talking points as she pretty much aligns with the party changes over time on that one.
I took this quiz four years ago, and scored a 41; I duly posted about it, and received this comment in response:
“Drive down any street with a bar, or tavern; walk in; order a beer and see if you feel uncomfortable. If so, it’s time to consider your perception of the real world.”
Food, or at least drink, for thought.
I guess you don’t go to many Blue Collar Bars as I’ve nearly been killed trying this in Black , Mexican , Phillipino or ‘ biker ‘ bars more than once .
I’m not alone here , some right near me are not friendly unless they know you aforehand .
Remember the Bob Seger lyric: “Walk into a restaurant / strung out from the road / you can feel the eyes upon you / as you’re shaking off your coat.” I don’t think Bob Seger was out of touch. Judgy eyes and xenophobia are everywhere.
I didn’t used to get it. I get it now.
Trump must win because the only other option is Hillary which is unthinkable. Unbearable. Loathsome.
57 – I reckon growing up in western Montana in a town less than 4000 people raised my score.
You may not trust Trump, but here in American we get two bad choices. Hillary is worse. And I’m not a misogynist.