Well, it’s common and delightful for beautiful young women to have all sorts of silly ideas in their heads. Not that young men are any better; I still have a “Clinton/Gore ’92” sticker on the BMX number plate I was running at the time.
Yesterday, the United Kingdom voted to take control of its own affairs. This is a good thing. Local government is always a good thing. If we had more local government, then San Francisco could be a sanctuary city if they wanted, with no repercussions. Small towns in Ohio that don’t have any crime and any diversity issue could have all the guns and trucks and country music they wanted, while Chicago could do whatever they think is going to solve their issues. Local government means you have a voice. Yes, it might affect the financial markets. So what? As we’re all coming to learn, that’s a rigged game anyway, a massive system to transfer trillions of dollars to the sixty-two people who own half of the world.
The British citizens who voted for Brexit were voting against those sixty-two elites, and their unelected thugs in Brussels, forcing the Calais Jungle on them. They were voting for self-determination. That’s a very American thing to do — but I should point out that all of this country’s founding ideals were conceived by men who were educated in the English system. It’s nice to see the mother country voting for its own independence, isn’t it?
Could not agree more with your words.
I am hopeful that this might be the start of the world waking up to itself, coming to realise that a One World Government is not actually in the best interests of anyone.
Bring back more local government I say too.
Agree that this is a very good thing. I see a lot of people this morning saying that this is bad for cooperation or trade or peace or whatever, but to me it’s really just a vote against coercion by an unaccountable, corrupt bureaucracy (corrupt, unaccountable, bureaucracy: synonyms?). You don’t need to discard thinges like free trade or mutual defense, it’s just that you’d rather be free to do or not do those things on your own terms. Good for you, Britain!
Also worth mentioning that Cameron had the integrity to step down when his constituents voted against his preferred course. Wonder how many US pols would have resorted to undemocratic use of their powers to push through their favored agenda in spite of the referendum?
ZG, it’s among the lessons American men could stand to take from Brits: learning their own language, dressing like adults in public, and conducting themselves with a God-damned shred of dignity.
“Dignity” requires more than an accent.
I’m sorry but that’s not how the EU works at all, there are 751 elected officals in the EU parliment that can debate and alter legislation and has the same level of power as the “unelected officials” (these unelected officals are nomited by the EU parliment and then the elected heads of states in the EU vote on them, so not directly elected by still done by democratic means). These “unelected officals” can pass laws true, but they can only pass laws in EU states and only in areas that the EU member has agreed to give them power in.
Better expalnation here “http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2016/06/21/is-the-eu-really-run-by-unelected-bureaucrats/”
The problem with not giving up free trade or equally as important the free movement of people is that you end up in the position that Norway is in where to get these things you need to agree to EU laws and treaties. You get all the laws that the EU nastily forces on member states like workers rights without being able to debate them.
“http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/norwegian-model-realities-brexit-norway-uk-eu”
While we’ve now lost the free trade, united regulations, free movement of people we still get to keep our unaccountable, corrupt and unelected bureaucracy here in the UK thank God!
“https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords”
Ok, so maybe “highly insulated” bureaucrats rather than unelected ones. Nonetheless, the accretion of power to an insulated set of bureaucrats is something I think a democratic nation should find very worrying.
As far as trade deals go, the UK might have a shot at a better deal than Norway based on its much larger economy and population. And even if you accept the Norway model, at least it’s just the specific terms of the treaty rather than signing up for the full “ever closer union.”
Again when you look at the amount of laws that the EU has introduced it’s quite limited because they do have to go through such a lenghty process. Everything they do is highly scrutinised while the House of Lords have more power over the UK than the EU ever had and the cost of entry is that Granddaddy was Lord of the manor.
The EU has more to gain by being harsh on the terms of the Brexit to stop over far right movements accross the EU trying to do similar.
The EU certainly has an incentive to punish the UK for exiting, but they have to weigh that against the damage they would do to themselves in the process. It’s not like the continental economy is all sunshine and puppies right now either.
ZG
Which do you think will do better an isolated UK or a more intergrated and focused EU?
Is the answer “Ask Greece”?
Dara,
This is in reply to your below post. I don’t seem to have a reply link on that one, though. I think an isolated UK wold certainly struggle, but I also don’t believe the choice needs to be between the EU and isolationism. Other Commonwealth countries are experiencing better rates of growth than the Euro zone, and Switzerland and Norway don’t seem to be doing too badly for themselves.
That said, obviously there’s a lot of uncertainty and complexity in the world economy, so I certainly could be wrong (although the same is true of predictions by anyone, even people much smarter than I am).
Ultimately, I like the Brexit as a vote for sovereignty and against centralized bureaucracy rather than as a vote against free trade
To both of you I’m not arguing that the EU is perfect, Greece is one of the most obvious flaws. But the British economy was growing under the EU, it lost £100m by nine o’clock this morning.
As for Soverinty, England is going to be under a Primeminister it didn’t vote for come October and more than likely would try to privitise the NHS (Johnstone or Gove), repeal the Human Rights Act, (May). The right in England is going to have a nasty shock soon.
I’m certainly not arguing that Brexit is perfect either. It seems to me that the positives of EU membership can be achieved in ways that don’t involve the negatives in terms of loss of political and economic sovereignty.
As far as the next Prime Minister and the other issues you mention, I really don’t have enough information to have a useful opinion on them.
To me the real benefit of the EU is nothing to do with laws, politics or trade, rather it’s about the free movement of people and ideas. I’m Irish lived there for most of my life, through the EU I got the the chance to grow up in a house where my Dad’s business was supported by the immigration that came in and the chance to study in Scotland for free. I mean I was able to fill out an application to University and book my ticket to another country without having to wait potencially years to get a Visa. I got the chance to learn more about the world, I’ve had a love affair in Paris, been clubbing all night in Berlin all on a whim because of that free movement. I’ve got a job where I’m flourisihing, friends that I would never have met and oppourtunity all around me or I did until this morning. Imagine that you woke up and found that not only your job but your life in the country that you choose was in jeopardy. That’s what I’ve had to go through today, it was a choice made by the rich elite manipulating the poor
“https://www.facebook.com/GMB/videos/1739363339653897/”
and aging
“http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-how-the-results-compare-to-the-uks-educated-old-an/”
Brexit wasn’t a vote on the British economy it was the right trying to bring back the tweed wearing days of the past. It’s nostalgia for the days when Britian was great, taking over the world, sailing the seven seas and spreading the Bristish way far and wide. These same people are the ones complaining that people like me mean that they can’t get to see a doctor.
“http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/generation-emigration/i-m-in-shock-i-feel-lost-irish-in-britain-respond-to-brexit-1.2698214”
Just feel the irony from that
All I can say is: when visiting the UK in 1978 I saw a totally different nation. The Brits built their own cars, there were British waiters and clerks in the shops, the language and culture was English, and it all seemed very British and connected to history. Fast forward to 2008: all the “menial” jobs were filled by Eastern Europeans, the cars were anything but British, and I could have been in Los Angeles or Paris as easily as London. Open borders and One World Government may be convenient for some of the middle class, but for the most part, the EU and “free” trade benefits the One Percent.
P.S. to Dara: the free movement of people and ideas will continue, as it did before the EU and as it will afterwards. There was no EU when my family emigrated in 1850 or when my wife’s family emigrated in 1915. And with the internet, we will have free ideas in spite of borders, as evidenced by you, an Irish lass, speaking on this forum!
There was also a very different immigration policy, also I’m a guy ಠ_ಠ
The EU didn’t kill the British car industry, it killed itself. They were making absolute garbage, and considered a bailout (and subsequent nationalization) as a license to continue cranking out garbage.
I’m very interested in seeing how this works out for England .
.
God knows they’ve had the hell of a time .
.
-Nate
The vote split largely on age lines, with the older folks skewing Leave. I thank Britain’s elders for knowing thugs when they see ’em.
I laughed hearing that some Scots regretted staying in the UK in the wake of Brexit.
/woad
FREEDOM!!
Yup freedom from that stupid decision, guarnteed Scottish independence within two years and more than likely staying at the EU table
The dregs that are Scotland today are a bunch of drunk, heroin addicted, welfare cheats who love to attack foreign tourists come pub closing time. Anyone with a brain or industry left that country 200-300 years ago for the US, Canada or Australia.
So scotland is mad somebody else decided their fate for them when they just had the opportunity to choose their own fate. I call that funny
BREXIT!!! I was so happy when I saw they won. Fuck the EU and Belgium in particular.
Coming next, those same 62 Davos/Bilderberg elitist pricks will tank the world economy to spite the rabble for defying them, and because they can.
Further to local gov’t: if my countrymen and co-religionists can resist the urge to start murdering again, the Brexit could be an important step towards Irish unity. But in this case the older generations will spur what thuggery does happen…
While I appreciate your position (small. local government), those same governments tend to be *exceptionally* resistant to change, and ripe for the exact type of corruption you never want to see (the local business owner greases the palms of the local sherrif so that he gets the zoning laws he wants, because there’s no oversight to stop it, etc.). Power corrupts, and “checks and balances” are needed to restrain that corruption.
Not that the current system is any better in the US from my outsider perspective, mind you - but history tells us local lords almost always treat their serfs worse compared to the larger governments that replace them. The smaller the government, the easier it is to hold on to power - again, as history has shown.
Not saying you are right or wrong about UK self-governance. But I *will* say that I will wager you this: two years from now, the “commoner” in England will have less, not more global buying power, devalued savings, and less, not more, manufacturing opportunities than they had today. Wager you a dinner or something next time you are in Toronto after June 24, 2018 😉
Did anyone else notice that the raven-haired beauty had decorated her sign claiming that she was not British but European with STARS OF DAVID?
Very sweet and “inclusive” of her!
John
This looks like a battle won, but ultimately the war is being lost, if it hasn’t already.
Expect the Left to double down on the ‘issues’. They won’t simply sit an accept the people’s mandate. They may actually wipe their a$$ with it. I’ve seen it done - with a constitutional rule saying they had to do as voted. Watch this space.
If there’s no legal mandate between the referendum and what the government has to do, the UK has a long long road ahead.
The UE would be horribly stupid if they were to punish the British to show a ‘lesson’ to the remaining countries. I can put money that some industries will lobby, and hard, to avoid any sort of retaliation. I’m looking at German companies. People in the remaining countries may as well request a referendum and tell the UE vafanculo/vayanse al carajo/GFY!
This will be interesting to watch. History is most definitely not a straight line.
I was pleasantly surprised to see Britain actually vote to Leave. I thought they were much too far gone to do such a thing, but I guess that’s a lesson to never give up on the possibility of a course correction.
We can hope that enough other European countries will see the wisdom in the UK decision and dissolve the EU on their own. It should be put back to a Free Trade area and Common Market like it was initially.
I don’t really expect that to happen, but I hope it does.
I’m just wondering…Is there any reason that Great Britain couldn’t apply to join NAFTA? It could be renamed the North Atlantic Free Trade Area. There would be no friction with British self government or immigration policies because NAFTA is, I think, a purely free trade body. The USA, Britain, Canada and Mexico would make a formidable trade bloc. It may sound mad, but it’s worth a thought. What do the rest of you think?
I agree — but the EU is certainly going to have a free trade agreement with the UK.
I mean, they have one with “Palestine”, you know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements
Indeed, one of the big advantages of Brexit is that Britain can re-establish direct trade agreements with its historic trading partners, which was not possible as part of the EU.
I expect they will have some kind of trade agreement with the EU, but then re-establish a vast trading block with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, US, and dozens of former colonies.
There will be costs in this re-alignment, of course, but I expect them to benefit in the end.